Red diesel - Chapter three

jamesjermain

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Via Stuart Carruthers, cruising manager of the RYA, I have received a copy of a letter addressed to the RYA Government and Legal department from the EC department responsible for taxation of energy products. It is unequivocal and supports our use of red diesel, bought in the UK, anywhere in the Community. The text of the letter follows (I have put the important paragraphs in bold):

Gus Lewis, Esq.
Legal & Government Affairs Manager
Royal Yachting Association
RYA House, Ensign Way
Hamble, Southampton SO31 4YA

Dear Mr Lewis

As requested, please find herewith a copy of my emailed advice of 27 April 2007:- “I have received a reply from the Directorate-General for Taxation and Customs. Their finding are as follows: The United Kingdom' s derogation from the general provisions of the energy taxation directive(1), allowing the UK to apply a reduced rate of excise duty to fuel used in navigation in private pleasure craft, expired by the end of 2006. The Commission communication of 30 November 2006(2) explains the reasons why the Commission did not propose an extension of the derogation in question, as requested by the UK. Therefore, from January 2007 onwards, the general provisions of the energy taxation directive also apply for the United Kingdom.

However, the UK does not intend to reflect these changes until November 2008. HM Revenue & Customs' web-site carries a budget note (BN) on the expiry of derogations, see: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget2007/bn70.htm which explicitly quotes the 1st November 2008 as the date by which fuel used for the purpose of private pleasure flying/boating will no longer benefit from the current reduced and exempt rates of duty.

According to the Community excise legislation and the jurisprudence of the European Court of Justice, in case of fuel transported in the normal fuel storage tank, the excise duty is chargeable in the Member State of acquisition according to the national rules. It falls upon the Commission to enforce the compliance of national legislation with Community law.

Consequently, in the meantime, people can acquire red diesel in the UK and use it legally in another member state of the European Union, if transported in the normal fuel storage tank.

I hope this is of assistance."

Best wishes

Marguerite-Marie Brenchley
Outreach Section
(1) Council Directive 2003/96/EC of 27 October 2003 restructuring the Community
framework for the taxation of energy products and electricity -
http://eurlex.
europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32003L0096:EN:HTML
(2) Commission communication COM(2006)743 -
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/site/en/com/2006/com2006_0743en01.pdf

Stuart Carruthers has spoken to Suzanne Bosman at the Dutch Embassy who is, apparently bewildered by all the agro she is getting. She knows nothing about red diesel and derogation and is merely acting as a conduit between us yachties and the Dutch D&C, and feeling a bit bruised by it all.

The bottom line now seems to be that, yes, we can use red diesel in Holland but it might be safer not to until Dutch D&C has admitted it in writing. The RYA has asked for and is awaiting such clarification.
 

LadyInBed

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Gosh! Some clarity at last.
I do feel a bit sorry for Suzanne, probably some poor secretary tasked with giving us the brush off /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 

dom

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This really is a decent piece of work and well followed up. I have become somewhat cynical about the RYA recently but might begin to change my mind if they get back to basics like this.
 

Santana379

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What about the modest quantity carried for safety in jerrycans in the cockpit locker? These are not the "normal fuel storage tank", but I can see no good reason for any different treatment.

Also, are we all going to have to flush our tanks if we visit the Netherlands after November 2008. It would be nice if the RYA acted prior to any problems arising, rather than waiting for the first fines in Spring 2009.

Little Knot
 

jamesjermain

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I have to say this is pretty standard stuff for the RYA - the departments work like this all the time. Most of it is behind the scenes and doesn't get reported - if it did the RYA would be accused of blowing its own trumpet! The RYA Magazine covers a fair bit of what goes on together with the 'Briefings' newsletter but even these cannot cover it all.
 

jamesjermain

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This is going to be a problem throughout the EC next year and wse can only hope the various customs and excise departments take a sensible view. Again, receipts are going to be key - for red if bought before November and for white afterwards.

What we need is a statement that red diesel boughtin the UK before November 2008 and kept in the main fuel tank, may be used after 1 November throughout the EC.
 

Talbot

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[ QUOTE ]
I have to say this is pretty standard stuff for the RYA - the departments work like this all the time. Most of it is behind the scenes and doesn't get reported - if it did the RYA would be accused of blowing its own trumpet! The RYA Magazine covers a fair bit of what goes on together with the 'Briefings' newsletter but even these cannot cover it all.

[/ QUOTE ]

And is why I have maintained my membership despite some disagreement with their stance (or lack of it) in some areas.
 

DJE

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Tank flushing, if required, is going to be a huge problem as the dye is intended to be persistent and it will be present in all the marina bulk tanks, pipelines, pumps, etc. So just cleaning the boat tank won't be enough.
 

dom

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That is interesting. For some reason many people including myself became somewhat cynical about the RYA when they gave the appearance of becoming more political and more remote from the needs of the average sailor.

To use an example - but not seeking to reopen this matter - red diesel. Did they not see the paradox and sillyness in a "sailing association" lobbying to keep a derrogation for red diesel in place? Did they not realize that the battle was unwinnable and would damage their reputation? There are many more examples.

If it is the case that perception and reality have now diverged in a material way the RYA should take steps to address this. Otherwise what may well happen is that they will lose the support of a lot of sailing folk - and their subscriptions! To be fair they always have done and continue to do a good job on the racing front.
 

Major Catastrophe

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[ QUOTE ]
Did they not see the paradox and sillyness in a "sailing association" lobbying to keep a derrogation for red diesel in place? Did they not realize that the battle was unwinnable and would damage their reputation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, as they awarded me with my certificate following the RYA Powerboat course I did, I think they cover both disciplines.
 

billmacfarlane

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I think you can only carry red diesel in your main tank which is a bit of a bummer as I always carry 2 spare jerry cans in one of my cockpit lockers before I head for France, for the simple reason that I've a very small fuel tank.
 

CliveG

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I agree with you.
We would still be sitting in the middle of the north sea if we could only use the fuel tank for storage.
25 ltr storage 2.5 ltr/hr consumption.
Need to top up after 7 or 8 hours to prevent air entering the system.
16 hour crossing no wind.

Safety dictates that enough is carried for 2 fills.
Is it suggested that we compromise our safety due to some bureaucrat not understanding the issues?

The above said I am intending to get a bigger fuel tank fitted some how.
 

dom

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Okay I don't think that red diesel was the best example to choose but since we are on this topic this is my logic.

1. The public perception is that RYA represents sailing which is about as sustainable a sport one can think of.

2. Whatever one believes government thinking is becoming supportive of the notion that Europe ought to lead the rest of the world in reducing carbon output [see recent G8]

3. As a result of 1 and 2 the RYA's campaign had precisely no chance of success. Their campaign therefore pointlessly damaged themselves in the public eye and in the eyes of many sailors.

Aside from the red diesel issue sailors are more heavily taxed both directly and indirectly in Britain than in any other European country including Switzerland. Fuel prices hit gas guzzlers mainly. Marina costs hit everyone much more. By restricting marina development [Portland is a great example] prices and hence business rates on those marinas remains very high. Now the diesel tax element will be one of the highest in Europe also.

Forgive the flippancy. May I introduce the more than happy "Exchequer" /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

We are all worse off now. Perhaps the RYA should have realised that the red diesel derrogation was lost but understood that it provided the ideal platform to lobby for something consistent with the governments agenda and was winnable. Quile simply they snatched defeat right out of the jaws of victory.
 

Seven Spades

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Well I thnk the RYA has done a sterling job, and I am a member and don't have a problem with what they do. I hope that they are going to fight the drink boating proposals. I think that as long as at least one person is sober on board then there should be no problem, the Navigate clause is too vague but I digress.

I agree we do need a letter from Dutch Customs accepting the correct position preferabley a downloadfable PDF of the actuall letter written in Dutch. That way we can all download it and keep a printed copy on board.

Incidently, at no point, in the letter to Mr Lewis does it say anything about carrying a reciept to prove the origin of the red in my tank, Habeus Corpus should apply. Anyone accusing you of having illeagly purchased red should have the onus of proving it.
 

Marsupial

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Well done James, but I need to see a letter from the Dutch before I go to Holland again, all we have at the moment is intention from the UK governemnt to comply in Nov 2008, another statement from the Dutch via Suzanne thats says tough, a few fined sailors and another statement from the EU via the RYA - there is still no consensus, pleasure sailors are still the scarificial pawns in the game.

But there seems to be light at the end of the tunnel and it might not be a train!
 
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