ylop
Well-known member
Why would HMRC be testing boats - since boats can use Red? They do check road vehicles where they have intelligence or high levels of misuse. In NI it used to be rife - so roadside testing was common.
RED Diesel again NI and the EU
- Thread starter Capt Popeye
- Start date
B27
Well-known member
HMRC have no interest in testing yachts because it's legal here.
They might have some interest in the paper trail of the 60/40 nonsense.
I do know of them sampling the fuel of land rovers and diesel cars belonging to farmers.
rotrax
Well-known member
As I understand it, now we are no longer a member of the EU their regulations on this matter do not apply to visiting British registered vessels.
A British registered vessel purchasing and using marked fuel while in the EU would, of course, be a completly different matter.
A British registered vessel purchasing and using marked fuel while in the EU would, of course, be a completly different matter.
lustyd
Well-known member
I don't believe their regulations mention nationality of yachts or yachtsmen. They have outlawed red diesel in the tanks of yachts in their waters, and now we've left they have no real reason to make an exception as they did before.
awol
Well-known member
Just a reminder the 60:40 split is your choice, not a rule. If a mobo can justify 60:40 then a sailboat may feel that battery charging, water heating both domestic and ocean, etc. represents more than 40%. Given that a naturally aspirated donk is unlikely to be more than 25% efficient anyway you may feel justified in paying full tax on about 16% of your fuel useage. As has been since the stupidity started - it's your choice!
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ylop
Well-known member
I’m not sure the 60/40 is supposed to cover inefficiencies from a naturally aspirated engine or “heating sea water”, that’s an incidental side effect of running the engine for propulsion. We all know that HMRC aren’t interested in analysing the 60/40 but if they were I think they might raise an eyebrow at any claim that heating water or charging batteries whilst underway (using the engine) was the intent of the provision. The reason for the distinction was that a boat which never moves but runs its engine to charge batteries and make hot water is entitled to regard its engine like a generator and run rebated fuel. I wonder if any of the people who have added sensors to everything and linked to RaspPi actually have a better estimate than 60/40 based on in/out of gear? Anyone asking for more than the norm better be prepared to justify it as someone at HMRC is bound to question it eventually. (FWIW I’ve never had a marina ask me what % I want to declare - simply hand me the declaration already saying 60/40 and I expect if it’s not 60/40, 0/100, 100/0, then I’d have to spend an hour in the marina office whilst they find someone who knows how to work it out, and put it through the till/computer, etc.
ithet
Well-known member
The 60/40 was introduced as an (ultimately failed) attempt to appease the EU. HMRC never wanted to tax marine fuel at all, although it is probably not politically expedient to remove it now. The original leaflet pretty much read as "please boaters, just claim the 60/40 whatever and don't give us extra work".
B27
Well-known member
Since last April, you can't use red in a generator.
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
You can if the use is non-commercial according to here...
Red Diesel Rules: The April 2022 Tax Changes
ylop
Well-known member
Presumably, you can on a boat! I don't have a genny so don't know.
B27
Well-known member
No mention of the 60/40 farce in that, so I wouldn't take it as accurate.
awol
Well-known member
The declaration I sign is for the percentage used for propulsion, not for the time spent in gear. However, I will happily let someone else make an argument with HMRC. Next move could be to make the Solent a ULEZ and charge non-electric, non-sailing vessels for passage!