Recycled PBO, won't buy another copy!

wotayottie said:
Its a bit of a generation thing Pete. I grew up when 17 year olds had old bangers and had to repair them at the roadside never mind decoke after 30k miles etc. My son hasnt a clue of whats inside an engine, assumes that they go on for ever, has no interest and would simply replace rather than refurb. More people are like him than are like me these days.
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Sure, but how much do you know about keeping horses? And my dad knows very little about keeping a computer up and running efficiently.

As technology changes, there's always part of it that's developed enough to be in most people's lives, but not yet developed enough that it just works without a bit of help and tinkering from the people that use it. A rough and ready skill in keeping that particular form of technology going then becomes general knowledge for the relevant generation, and they tend to look down on the generations either side of them who have different expertise instead.

Just about everyone around my age knows what AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS are (or were :) ), but my parents don't (even though they use computers as much as I drive a car) and I doubt that many of today's teenagers do either.

Pete
 
ben_m said:
Thanks for all the comments, both positive and negative – we do read the forums and try to take on board any criticism of the magazine.

Jcorstophine, we're glad you were looking forward to following the progress on the PBO Project Boat, and we're sorry to hear that you were disappointed to find the 'one year on' review.

As of yesterday the boat is now residing inside an industrial unit, so we will be able to press on with some major projects – like painting the hull and deck – over the next few weeks and months, whatever the weather throws at us. We can promise some real progress on the project boat in the next year.

The next issue (on sale early Jan) has a four-page feature showing how we rebuilt the boat's windows.

I feel we must reply to Frayed Knot's assertion that there is 'a very obvious bias towards their better advertisers in their "independent" gear tests'. I must STRONGLY deny that manufacturers pay to have products included in our tests, or that advertisers receive better treatment in gear tests. The gear tests in PBO have always been, and will continue to be unbiased and independent.

Wishing you fair winds and the best of luck in your winter refits,

Ben
PBO Features Editor
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Just wondering, as I haven't read a PBO for some time now: is the Norbury/Coppercoat love-in still ongoing?
 
Every mag recycles as new readership comes in. I do feel though that PBO is a lot better than a year ago. It does seem to be doing what it is called on the Practical front and a lot better for it.
I feel that the review tests could be better sometimes as some of the reviews seem inconclusive.
 
the hacks

Boathook said:
Every mag recycles as new readership comes in. I do feel though that PBO is a lot better than a year ago. It does seem to be doing what it is called on the Practical front and a lot better for it.
I feel that the review tests could be better sometimes as some of the reviews seem inconclusive.
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the PBO hacks I have met have been good down to earth people who own less than new and surprisingly unspectacular boats - so are genuinely interested in the art of practical Boat Owning. They are trying to run boats on IPC salaries.

Having written a few pages for them over the past few months I can tell you that I myself am a very practical person.

Why, only last year I personally replaced a fuse on the bulk-head mounted HD flat screen TV in the Swan's master cabin.

Dylan
 
ben_m said:
I feel we must reply to Frayed Knot's assertion that there is 'a very obvious bias towards their better advertisers in their "independent" gear tests'. I must STRONGLY deny that manufacturers pay to have products included in our tests, or that advertisers receive better treatment in gear tests. The gear tests in PBO have always been, and will continue to be unbiased and independent.



Ben
PBO Features Editor
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So you are claiming that all the gear you test is bought from the retail market for test?

Also are the product review products also bought in by staff or are they 'donated' by the manufacturers.

I am asking for two reasons because first in the infamous ROCNA thread it was suggested that ROCNA 'donated' doctored anchors to get good ratings, and somewhere else I heard that the reason certain products did not appear in tests despite being popular and readily available because their manufacturer/supplier was not prepared to supply free samples.
 
wotayottie said:
Its a bit of a generation thing Pete. I grew up when 17 year olds had old bangers and had to repair them at the roadside never mind decoke after 30k miles etc. My son hasnt a clue of whats inside an engine, assumes that they go on for ever, has no interest and would simply replace rather than refurb. More people are like him than are like me these days.
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I couldnt agree more - to some degree this is due to manufacturing methods too - I spent my teens running a small radio repair shop from my bedroom and can fault find on most analogue circuits, but todays digital surface mount software driven electronics are not only beyond the skill set of even fairly well versed electronic engineers they are deliberately designed to only need board level switch out fixes. Engines with their complex fuel management systems are in the same league. The reliabilty of these new systems has improved so much too so there's even less chance of getting enough experience to become competent.

The inside gubbins of an engine is pretty much unchanged but our culture has evolved so that servicing and remedial work is now left only for professionals assuming it is even a servicable item of course given that so much nowdays is throwaway or increasingly recyclable.

Boating does seem to be one of the last refuges of 'those that can' combined with products and materials that lend themselves to be fixed by user, though judging by the bodges revealing themselves on my boat as the project progresses, I'm not altogether sure thats always a good thing.
 
Speaking as a coatings manufacturer in the marine industry I can certainly confirm that we have not supplied the likes of PBO with free goods for testing, nor have we received any favours in return for placing adverts (quite rightly so).

When Coppercoat was applied to "Zest" by Cliff Norbury (Sarah's father) back in about 1994 the standard price was charged. It was only 14 years later that Sarah chose to write about the performance of the coating over that extended period, and naturally we were all delighted that it had performed so well (I remember the quote "Our experience with Coppercoat has been fantastic. In all the 14 years we've never had a barnacle, seaweed, nothing..."). But in response to "Frayed Knot", I'd hardly call this one article a love-in. And if Sarah uses a product and likes it, surely she's allowed to say so?

(Of course, what we would have liked is for Sarah to have printed a little piece every year for 14 or so years, along the lines "Yep, the Coppercoat's still working after X years" - but that might have been deemed a love-in!!!!)
 
Used to buy annual online YM & ST, PBO at the news stand.
Now I only buy if theres an intresting couple of articles listed in the inside cover.
I find this and other simelar sites very informative, even entertaining:p
 
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So far as I know, no libraries have a holding as complete as this. Please consider the future of your mags and make sure that when you have finished with them, they go to a good home!
 
maxi77 said:
So you are claiming that all the gear you test is bought from the retail market for test?

Also are the product review products also bought in by staff or are they 'donated' by the manufacturers.

I am asking for two reasons because first in the infamous ROCNA thread it was suggested that ROCNA 'donated' doctored anchors to get good ratings, and somewhere else I heard that the reason certain products did not appear in tests despite being popular and readily available because their manufacturer/supplier was not prepared to supply free samples.
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I realise that this is a revived thread but having missed it previously I think I should comment. I have not carried out testing for PBO but I have for YM. Articles I have written for that magazine include the destructive testing of chain, connectors, C-links, seacocks and a Rocna anchor, maybe some more that slip my memory. In no case was the manufacturer asked to supply any of the gear free of charge. In some cases I bought it from local chandleries, in others the YM staff did so, although so far as the chain is concerned some suppliers volunteered to supply free of charge after I approached them. In one case a supplier who advertises extensively in both magazines took great exception to what I wrote but this did not deter the editor from supporting my statements.

In other cases that I have been involved with, where more expensive equipment was tested, manufacturers have been asked to loan equipment that was subsequently returned. Again, the fact that they either did or did not advertise bore no relevance to the test results. It is only necessary to read a boat test, where clearly the vessel is on loan, to realise that the journalist prints his opinion, warts and all. Having worked with journalists from both magazines I can assure you that they only wish to print the observed outcome of testing.

IIRC the statement about Rocna concerned type approval testing by an organisation rather than a test by a magazine. Anchors for the group test of 2006 by YM/Sail/West marine were all off the shelf items purchased by the team.
 
The slights I think you are addressing, Vyv, are by and large nothing more than somebody's prejudices dressed up in a bit of supposedly knowing rhetoric. They have no foundation in fact. In other words, they are precisely what their proponents so often criticise magazines for, often baselessly.
 
Jcorstorphine said:
Just bought my copy of the January 2013 PBO today and was looking forward to the latest tasks undertaken by the PBO crew in restoring ‘Hantu Biru’ Sadly, all I could find was a review of this years activities.

I keep vowing to stop buying PBO as I have almost every copy back to No 1. There is little new under the sun and often we get trotted out the same old features such as fitting out, winterising and so on but at least these are new scribblings wheras this months offering is recycled 2012 articles.
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Could it be that there is nothing much new in the world of yachting. FWIW I find the same as you do after 25 years of reading the mags but I am blessed with a failing memory so everything seems new to me. Maybe I shall stop my sub and simply re-read the old copies for the first time each time!

P.S. I challenge you to think of the subject for an article that hasnt previously been covered in the mags.
 
Bosun Higgs said:
Could it be that there is nothing much new in the world of yachting. FWIW I find the same as you do after 25 years of reading the mags but I am blessed with a failing memory so everything seems new to me. Maybe I shall stop my sub and simply re-read the old copies for the first time each time!

P.S. I challenge you to think of the subject for an article that hasnt previously been covered in the mags.
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how to build a duck punt
 
I was given several cwt ( yes, they're that old! ) of elderly PBOs, YMs, Y/Worlds, and Sailing T's, to save the soon-to-be-world-girdling-liveaboards taking them to SIBS and donating them all to Richard Shead..... who has his own supply, one hears!

I'm working my way through them in bursts, tearing out articles of potential interest and binning the rest of the bumff into landfill. What surprises me is how much I've unlearnt/missed/enjoyed some of the articles and other stuff. There are vague plans to spend a rainy week fitting them all into plastic sleeves, and those into ring binders....

Whether that will happen is moot. What is certain is that there's a fair bit of interest still in those non-current articles..... especially Dick Everitt's clever inventions and the old cartoons by Mike Peyton. I'm now down to just over one-and-a-half cwt..... :cool:
 
Bosun Higgs said:
Could it be that there is nothing much new in the world of yachting. FWIW I find the same as you do after 25 years of reading the mags but I am blessed with a failing memory so everything seems new to me. Maybe I shall stop my sub and simply re-read the old copies for the first time each time!

P.S. I challenge you to think of the subject for an article that hasnt previously been covered in the mags.
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Just built a new “Man Shed” for my “twilight years” so may move the PBO filing cabinet in there with a chair and a wine rack. I wonder what over 500 PBOs weigh?

Being retired the only boats I can afford are those built in the late 60s and early 70s so I will be able to wallow in a sea of Macwesters, Westerlys, Thames Marine and Colvics. You never know, I might see an ideal project boat as my wee motorsailor is making me soft and old before my time.
 
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Jcorstorphine said:
Just built a new “Man Shed” for my “twilight years” so may move the PBO filing cabinet in there with a chair and a wine rack. I wonderer what over 500 PBOs weigh?

Being retired the only boats I can afford are those built in the late 60s and early 70s so I will be able to wallow in a sea of Macwesters, Westerlys, Thames Marine and Colvics. You never know, I might see an ideal project boat as my wee motorsailor is making me soft and old before my time.
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My best days were from a heap of PBO left by a friend. 1980s vintage. I selected one for lunch reading each day at the local cafe. Were can you find a guys experience of making a sail-drive from a lawn mower engine driving a Seagull leg via belts? In a ply 17ft gunter rigged home build. Maybe we do not have DIY sailors now, mors the pity..
DW

I have bought several mags over the years, but all fall down on the repition of old themes. Water craft is one of the best for shed builders ( as in making a boat in a shed...)
 
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