Recreational Craft Regulations 1996 (SI1996 No 1353)

[kingfisher]

Re: I don\'t get your portlight argument

Universal windscreens for cars???? You can only put Volvo S80 windows on a Volvo S80. So it's not that portholes for cars are universal. Try finding a new window for a '85 car. Dealers won't stock it, only the paralel market has it. So cars are worse than boats. What if your portholes of Beneteaus were completely different different from those of Jeaneau31 -33 -- 40, Bowman 385 , Etap 21 23...
Besides, CE-marking is a safety issue. There's probably a reason why portholes need to be framed instead of bolt on plex.

Who checks CE-marking when you bring a privately bought yacht from SA?
1) I know first hand that the french authorities do
2) Customs officials have to do a prima facie investigation of CE-marked products (and they have the corresponding HIN-codes, so they know which product fall under the different directives)
3) But the ultimate authority is the judge. So you better not charter your yacht out, because if something happens, and your yacht is not compliant, you'll be up a certain creek without a certain rowing instrument.

Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com

 

[AndrewB]

Interesting point ... but simply hypothetical?

This doesn't need a history lesson.

What my case shows is that whether or not the RCD de jure sets standards, de facto that is the consequence. I am unable to purchase a non-standard component (even though the maker admitted they probably still held some old stock). As far as I can see, it is impractical in one-off cases to go through the process of demonstrating conformity.

 

[Guest]

Surely the real truth of the RCD?

If I may go back up the thread a bit: Handle a Force 7 in the English Channel? What is that supposed to mean? Penzance to Brest at the tail-end of a week-long Sou-westerly Force 10 during late September's equinoctial spring tides? Or Dover to Calais at dead neaps with a mid-Summer North-easterly 4/5, expected to puff up briefly as it bounces off the French coast?

Not even the vacuous half-wits who strut about Brussels spending our taxes on themselves could bracket those two together. There is in truth little point haggling over the pedantic, desk-bound drivel in these laws - the simple and unpleasant fact is that they have not been openly debated by a democratically elected Parliament for the benefit of the people: they have been trumped up in secret by unaccountable Euro-bosses, for the sole purpose of increasing the powerful economic and legal strangleholds that their burgeoning EU Super-State is exerting over us.

Big Euro-business is given carte blanche by the cost of regulations to destroy any independent competition; a 'Supreme Court' is charged not with protecting the people from injustice but with 'furthering European integration'; 'laws' invented in secret by total strangers over-ride those of our elected Parliament; criticism of the EU, its bosses or its institutions is legally deemed blasphemous; selling a pound of apples to a consenting adult is an imprisonable offence; selling ANYTHING without the express permission of the Masters is an imprisonable offence!. Would you voluntarily go to live in such a place?

This is the mere tip of the Euro-iceberg, and serious discussion of the RCD's fatuous minutiae is akin to rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic. We should all be preparing our boats for the Chops of the Channel - so we can flee this stultifying tyranny before its Euro and its Corpus Juris finally consign our English Common Law freedoms to the Hurd Deep.

Euro-Police with diplomatic immunity; a Euro-Army to suppress civil unrest; compulsory identity cards; Coastguard empowered to stop you going to sea; etc; etc. I fear poor old Europe has been here before.

 

[AndrewB]

Well put. (nm)

nm

 

[Avocet]

Re: I don\'t get your portlight argument

It's much worse on cars - you need to replace it with one approved for that particular type of vehicle! Ususally it's not a problem because they are shaped and thus, unique to the vehicle anyway but the replacement screen manufacturer will still have to do all the tests even though he made it out of the same stuff he always uses! On very old cars with flat glass you can sometimes get away with having something cut from flat sheet though.

 

[Guest]

To buy or not to buy - that is the EU !!

As far as I am aware - there is no ruling to stop purchase outside EU .... in fact I have project about import of Cruiser Racer yachts from outside EU .... which by the way are CE Certified .... but ABSOLUTELY NON EU build ......

So ???????????????????

Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Guest]

I hate the EU too !!!!

Wrong colour strawberries, wrong shape bananas, chocolate thats not chocolate ..... and Blair wants us to join even closer !!!

Sorry - I believe in opening up and removing trade barriers, even protectionism - (protectionism - the US does it all the time ... look at the steel docks empty in the Baltics !!) .... but loss of freedoms etc. is NOT ON.

The demise of British Boatbuilding was due to 2 factors ..... a) competition from cheaper production lines with supposed quality build, b) conformity with so-called standards .... what is the result ......certainly fine looking boats ..... but I would still question the quality and strength of a lot of 'em.

That is my soap-box today !!!!

Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[graham]

Re: You cant compare with cars

The comparison with cars is a bit misleading.Cars are produced by the million.Boat are produced in hundreds or thousands.

Look at the boats from the 70s 80s and early 90s.Most of the classes didnt get to a thousand boats .Many excellent craft only made a few hundred.But what a choice we had.

Companies will be frightened to develop designs not suitable for the mass market due to the extra initial cost of testing to get a category.

 

[Guest]

Re: Well put. (nm)

Thank you, but what does nm mean?

 

[BrendanS]

Re: Well put. (nm)

NM is short for No Message. Means you don't have to open the post. The message is short and concise, and is in the header.

Pretty much what I meant by Force 7 really. Everyone understands the shorthand, and though sea conditions can vary according to location and other factors, as short hand it's pretty good. It would be a shame if every post which mentions a beaufort force on the forum had to resort to several lines of text to achieve the same message.

I didn't mention a force 7 in a legal perspective. I asked if a boat designed to a CE mark will actually get you through real conditions that we experience when out on the water. My boat is CE marked, and yet is undergoing major boat surgery to repair stress damage to the hull. It hasn't capsized or sunk, but is it really capable of handling the conditions if it falls apart. This doesn't appear to be covered.

 

[Guest]

Re: Well put. (nm)

Quite! I hope you did not feel I was sniping at you over the Force 7 business. It was the crass ignorance of Eurocrats hellbent on legally defining everything to a level of precision that, as you note, simply does not exist in real life at sea which drove me to my comments.
It means, of course, as other posters have pointed out, that if anything goes wrong they can simply wash their hands of the whole affair and blame you for buying a boat with the wrong sticker on it, then probably imprison you for disobeying their orders. Which presumably is part of the point of their whole exercise.

PS Talking of acronyms, does CE stand for Crap from Europe?

 

[richardandtracy]

Re: Surely the real truth of the RCD?

My feelings exactly.

Where to emigrate to though? The Solomon Islands?

Regards

Richard

 

[Guest]

Re: Surely the real truth of the RCD?

I looked at the globe and decided that South Island New Zealand was about as physically far as it is possible to get from the EU (or whatever it is calling itself this week), short of living on the moon. I've been there and it is a lovely place. The cars even drive on the left, which I suspect they will not be doing here for much longer.

John