Real life adherence to marina T&Cs

[essexsj]

Hi all,

Currently looking at the possibility of relocating, and have been checking our marinas in new areas, I see that some have T&Cs which I find myself pondering over far too much.

Having only had experience within a boatyard where there are not any particular T&Cs other than to pay the pontoon berthing fees, or the hardstanding fees and lift-out etc., I'm wondering what the effect in real terms the following clauses have over doing your own 'boat work':

11. Subject to 12 no work shall be done to the Vessel whilst at the Company’s Marina or premises (unless with prior written consent of the Company which may be withheld at its sole discretion) other than minor running repairs or minor maintenance of a routine nature by the Owner, or Owner’s Party on a non paying basis not causing any nuisance or annoyance to any other users of the Company’s Marina or premises or any other person residing in the vicinity.
12. Prior written consent may be given or withheld at the Company’s sole discretion for work to be carried out on the Company’s Marina or premises – but will generally be given in the following circumstances:
٠ Where the work to be carried out is work which the Company decides, and states in writing that it cannot by itself or by the use of sub-contractors carry out.
٠ Where the Company is satisfied that the whole of the work is remedial and not servicing and is being carried out under warranty by the manufacturer and/or supplier of the Vessel or any part of her equipment to which the warranty relates.

Over the last couple of seasons, some instances of work I've done myself - I'm trying to find out how others deal with this if stated in your Marina 'contract T&Cs', or whether it is deemed as 'minor running repairs' or 'minor maintenance of a routine nature by the owner' or whether prior written consent/discretion etc is required:

• Install electric anchor windlass - power tool cutting and sanding of GRP and backing boards
• Power wash, scrape and re-paint antifouling to hull
• Clean and polish propeller and propshaft
• Add vinyl boat name decals
• Polish topsides of hull
• Remove and replace seacocks
• Winterise and servicing of engine
• Climb the mast to replace light bulbs and repair Windex
• Sanding and re-varnishing of interior woodwork
• Replace engine mounts
• Removed stern gland stuffing box and install PSS

Very keen to hear of real life experiences for both positive and negative aspects of these T&Cs. I'm not challenging the marinas' clauses, but genuinely keen to find out how difficult or 'costly' it may be for me to face this minor conundrum by a relocation.

Best regards, Steve.

 

[Boathook]

The T&C's where I'm moored. Nice and simple and I even installed a bow thruster one winter. All boatowners there do all they can to keep the place tidy, clean and clear when working on boats.

The expression "Owner" Wherever used shall include a customer, charter, master or authorised agent.
Dogs to be kept on a lead at all times and any dog fouling cleared up.
Cars must be parked in allocated areas within the site and not parked on the grass.
Any oil/paint/grease waste should only be placed in the correct recycling area.
The company reserves the right at any time to rescind, amend, add to any of these conditions.
All boats must be adequately insured.
No laundry is to hung on or around the boats.
No foreign items should be introduced into the drainage system including baby wipes, nappies, sanitary products, cooking oil/fat, engine oil, grease or paint.
Cycling is only permitted on the tarmac road in single file. Cycles should not be left on the road or as a hazard to other site users.
A speed limit of 10mph must be observed at all times.
Mooring holders must supply a set of keys for their boat for use in an emergency.
No notices, advertisements, posters to be displayed in or on boats without the Boatyards permission.
Any subcontractors must report to a member of staff before commencing work.
A valid Liability Insurance Certificate must be produced and a daily fee will be charged.
No BBQ's to be left unattended
Children are the responsibility of Parents/Guardians at all times and are to be supervised, so as not to be a nuisance or danger to themselves or others. Children are not permitted to wander around the craning area at any time.
Hose pipes are forbidden for washing cars and must not be left running when not in use.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Well, Marinas control access to the site they own - that's part of what we pay for - and they have some responsibility for H&S on site. So they normally want to be sure of the insurance position of tradesmen doing work on-site before they'll allow them access, and commonly charge an access fee to non-resident tradesmen. DIY work is generally OK, so long as it doesn't cause inconvenience to others. For example, I happened to be in the harbourmaster's office at Titchmarsh when they spotted someone doing rather aggressive sanding on one of the pontoons, and they were about to go down and remonstrate with the perpetrator when I left; clouds of dust are usually regarded as anti-social at best! Ashore is another matter, but of course anything creating toxic waste (e.g. sanding anti-foul) must be carried out according to the rules that the marina has laid down; they are responsible for such matters. Things like grit-blasting must usually be carried out in a designated area to avoid the dust blowing everwhere.

On the pontoons, the general rule is that any DIY that doesn't cause problems for your neighbours is OK.

 

[Refueler]

Many Marinas are trying to protect their own services on site and restrict access to outside contractors coming in. I think you already understand that.

During my years of keeping boats in UK - I never had any problem about work I did myself ... but I did have a few occasions when yard withheld access to an outside contractor. In one instance - the yard wanted me to pay a 'lost work' fee to them - basically the price their 'guy' would charge ...

 

[stuartwineberg]

Not impressed. There is only one major marina in the Solent that I am aware of that demands that you use their people for work on your boat. The others are happy for you to bring in whoever you like as long as they provide appropriate proof of insurance and nowadays usually pay a daily contractors fee (usually less than a tenner). Certainly no limit on what you do yourself although I think they are cautious about people doing hot work in the yard and I have been asked to stop doing some grinding on my keel because of the risk of particles drifting onto other boats - fair enough.

 

[pvb]

The clauses you've quoted are in Shotley Marina's T&Cs, and are probably intended as a way in which they can stop people carrying out major work themselves which might be disruptive to others. Nevertheless, they appear very restrictive. All I can say is that I'm a resident at Shotley, and I do virtually everything myself and have never had a problem with the marina. On the odd occasions when I've had a contractor in to do something, they have to report to the marina office, and I believe they get charged a fee for working in the marina. Your list of DIY jobs are all things which you could do at Shotley without interference from the marina, as long as you're careful to avoid upsetting other residents.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I work in various boatyards and marinas along the South and East coasts and It varies greatly from marina to marina Steve. Some marinas are fine with outside contractors working on site, some refuse access entirely. Some charge a contractors fee, other don't and the fee (in my experience) varies from £8 per day, to £15 plus VAT per hour !

Your list is just as variable. Some of the items are clearly just service or running repairs, others are definitely not. In some of the marinas where i work you would need a method statement, risk assessment an £5m of public liability insurance to do just about anything on that list.

If enforced, clause 11 and 12 above would effectively rule out the following, possibly a couple more ;

• Install electric anchor windlass - power tool cutting and sanding of GRP and backing boards
• Remove and replace seacocks
• Winterise and servicing of engine
• Replace engine mounts
• Removed stern gland stuffing box and install PSS

 

[LittleSister]

I think all of that would fairly fall under the minor repairs/maintenance by owner, and also be of no concern to a marina (providing you were considerate about noise/dust/sparks that might affect your neighbours.

What the marinas don't want is either you getting in outside contractors to do work they would like; or you (or your chums) doing major work that would either disturb/annoy other berth-holders or risk them ending up with a wreck on the premises.

 

[V1701]

I think if you said which marina(s) you had in mind there'd likely be someone on here who'd be able to tell you from the horse's mouth. All I can offer is that where I am not all of the Ts & Cs are observed or enforced & as long as you behave reasonably & responsibly they leave you alone. I think if any marina tried to enforce all of their Ts & Cs all of the time & to the letter they'd have far fewer customers and far more staff. But I guess if you're in any doubt at all get it in writing before you hand over any money that you will be allowed to work on your own boat, if any of that helps...

 

[Baddox]

That looks similar to the T&Cs for the marina I use. I think that the jobs you described are pretty minor and wouldn’t raise many eye-brows. I’d add popping up the mast to change rigging to the list of chores done.

 

[pcatterall]

These terms are generally standard conditions in general use. It is as you suggest, the degree to which different marinas interpret and enforce them!
If possible visit the marina and talk to other owners or seek advice about specific marinas from forumites here.

 

[superheat6k]

The problem here is the vagueness of the statement "Minor'. Most of the tasks you list could be reasonably regarded as either routine maintenance, except the. windlass install, but not necessarily "Minor". Certainly replacing stern gland and shaft seal is not a minor task, but is a maintenance task.

But what galls me is their want to control everything - you are renting the water space the boat sits in - what business is it of theirs what happens when you are conducting your own affairs in the privacy of your boat ?

I would take a pen and strike out the clauses you don't like, print and sign two copies, appending the words "including strike outs as shown above" and send one with your cheque stapled on to it and keep one for your records. If they cash your cheque then they accept the changes to the contract.

 

[prv]

I think the first one is pretty standard. Its purpose is to give the marina grounds to stop someone doing major boatbuilding work that’s disruptive to other occupants, like extensive grinding of GRP throwing dust everywhere, or stripping out an entire interior onto the pontoon. Major DIY works also risk the project breaking down and the boat never being reinstated, leaving the marina with a scruffy wreck hanging around.

I reckon most of your items would be acceptable under this rule - as long as you were a bit careful with the cutting and grinding for the windlass to avoid making a mess of anyone else’s boat or leaving a huge slick of GRP dust in the water. The only questionable one is the antifoul scraping as it’s common to have specific requirements for this - I would check with the marina what their rules are.

The second term is less standard, though still not exceptional. Aimed at protecting their on-site boat-wright business against external competition. I don’t have any experience with this, nowhere I’ve been has had it. Whether it matters to you depends whether you’re planning to bring in external contractors to work on your boat or not. If you do all your own work then it may not be relevant at all.

Pete

 

[Aeolus]

Whether they actually apply their rules will depend on the marina /boatyard management. I think you'll need to name the place to get any useful feedback.

 

[Hot Property]

Sounds like Berthon's T&C's!

 

[Minchsailor]

Hands up - I don't keep my boat in a marina, but i do keep it in a yard during the winter doing most of my own maintenance which would include most of the items you've mentioned . I think a lot of theses T&Cs are an effort by the marina to keep their backsides covered.

They don't want owners doing noisy or messy work which would disturb others. They don't want outside contractors brought in who would dilute the income of on-site contractors. As always there is the question of 'elf &safety' - silly accidents will reflect on them.

At the end of the day I think it a matter of 'reasonableness'. Don't do anything to bring attention to yourself, and bear in mind - what the eye doesn't see...............

 

[johnalison]

I can understand a marina wanting to protect the work of its own staff and companies working from its site, but restricting an owner to minor servicing work on his or her own boat sounds unduly onerous. I see owners doing major refurbishment in my marina and I can't believe that such a condition would be upheld in any dispute. I have used the services of companies based in my marina, and also little men from outside for services not available (such as Webasto or gas), who, as far as I know, are only charged when they ask for the boat's keys.

 

[Crazy-Diamond]

There is a marina near us (East coast) that has similar conditions regarding preventing an owner using marine specialists or other professional help. The owner cannot employ an engineer themselves, it has to go through the marina for their markup. As a result, many boats come to the marina we use, which does not have the same restrictions, whenever they need to do some work using a third party.

 

[James_Parrot_3]

Best thing I can tell you is find a yard away from your marina and do your work there.
Its something Ive been faced with several times over the years and believe me you will find its the best solution.
Most of the yards Ive worked out of don't mind if you live aboard for the duration of the work.
Good luck:0

 

[pvb]

The clauses you've quoted are in Shotley Marina's T&Cs, and are probably intended as a way in which they can stop people carrying out major work themselves which might be disruptive to others. Nevertheless, they appear very restrictive. All I can say is that I'm a resident at Shotley, and I do virtually everything myself and have never had a problem with the marina. On the odd occasions when I've had a contractor in to do something, they have to report to the marina office, and I believe they get charged a fee for working in the marina. Your list of DIY jobs are all things which you could do at Shotley without interference from the marina, as long as you're careful to avoid upsetting other residents.

It seems that my post is "awaiting moderator approval" but, ridiculously, it will show if I quote it, so that's what I've done.