Re-rigging costs

[Solwaycruiser]

I am considering whether to re-rig my Beneteau Oceanis 411 which is a 2001 model. As it is 10 year old and the mast is down this winter I thought it would be worthwhile to do now as the mast will hopefully not be down again for a few years. So the first question is should the rigging be renewed at 10 year old and if not would it be reasonable to wait as long as 15 years?

Can anyone give me an idea of the cost of doing this with the mast already down and also should the bottlescrews be done at the same time? Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[SvenglishTommy]

You're gonna get so many different opinions on this it's hardly worth asking the question. It will vary from people saying if you dont replace every 10 years you're sure to die, to people who are sailing around with rigging that is going on 40.

I can tell you one thing though, this 10 year life span of rigging is a very British fad, probably brought about by insurance companies. Stainless steel does not deteriorate with time, it either corrodes or deteriorates by repeated loading. The problem is it isn't obvious when stainless is going to go, hence the 10 year 'rule'.

I would love to see some statistics to see if British yachts demast less than other countries yachts who have no concept of this 10 year rule.

 

[BabaYaga]

According to spar manufacturer Seldén a better rule of thumb is to re-rig after 20 000 miles.
Meanwhile inspect closely for broken strands, especially by the swages, as this is how a failure typically begins. Sudden failure with S/S 1x19 is said to be extremely rare.

 

[alahol2]

According to spar manufacturer Seldén a better rule of thumb is to re-rig after 20 000 miles.

That would probably take me beyond 20 years. Does it take into account all the bouncing around on a mooring though?

 

[DaveCass]

Rigging

My last boat (Jeanneau SO) was re-rigged after 12 years, as the genoa had become hard to furl and this was diagnosed as the forestay unravelling within the furler. The bill came to €1500, this was failry painful as I was just about to sell the boat (and subsequnely did this year)- therefore, I did not get the benfit of the new rigging- other than a quick sale.
The rigger advised that the standard modern rigging as per Jeanneau SO is subject to insurance checks after 10 years. Therefore had I lost the forestay (read rigging) I would not have been covered.
This year I bought a 1968 Van DeStat, which was surveyed and rigged in 2003- I thought that I would get a couple of seasons out of the rigging. however although the rigging is heavier duty than the Jeanneau, the rigger has again advised to re-rig as he found some corrosion and iffy parts at the swages.
I am again caught with a full re-rig and aother bill of €1500-2000 as the furling genoa is old and may not be able to go back on.
My feeling is that once you are in the net of surveys for insurance and riggers inspections, none of them will risk not changing - especially in the 8 or 9 year age for rigging.
IF your insurance doesn't require a survey and the rigging looks and performs OK - it probably is!

 

[V1701]

In your position I'd have as close a look as possible, replace anything with obvious faults/wear. Otherwise unless required for insurance or you're planning to cross the atlantic or something leave it...

 

[nimbusgb]

I worked out a rough quote with the chaps at Selden last week for an Oceanis 390 rig - perhaps a two metres in each shroud length difference to your 411.

Caps about £200 each including rigging screws, lowers and intermediates a little less. I'd add 20% for your bigger screws and longer cables.

The big challenge was the forestay and roller furling. If you have a 10 year old plus forestay with Ali extrusions you may not be able to separate the sections and the internal bushes may break, already be broken or may be worn and then feeding the new forestay up the hole in the middle may be difficult if not impossible.

The agents solution to this was to quote a new furler and forestay combination ( £2500 )

So somewhere between £1600 ( no furler ) and £3700 ( new furler ) for the whole rig.

There is of course no reason to do it all at once. Forestay this year, caps next, backs and baby stay next ....... etc just keep the receipts and a log.

 

[Koeketiene]

I am considering whether to re-rig my Beneteau Oceanis 411 which is a 2001 model. As it is 10 year old and the mast is down this winter I thought it would be worthwhile to do now as the mast will hopefully not be down again for a few years. So the first question is should the rigging be renewed at 10 year old and if not would it be reasonable to wait as long as 15 years?

Can anyone give me an idea of the cost of doing this with the mast already down and also should the bottlescrews be done at the same time? Thanks in advance for any advice.

Re-rigged Guapa (Kalik 44) last year.
Paid £1.5K - including bottlescrews - which I found very reasonable.
www.rigmagic.co.uk
Old rigging was original - 26 years old.

 

[Solwaycruiser]

An update

Thanks to all who have replied so far. Spoken to insurance company (Navigators and General) who say they do not insist on replacement at a specific age. Rigging company have had a visual and do not see any issues and boat has not had heavy use.

Will probably replace the forestay this time and leave the rest till another year! The quotation I have just received seems to be more expensive than the costs suggested in the replies above but perhaps competition is greater elsewhere. If anyone has had a quotation in the UK for a 411 I would still appreciate if they could post. Again thanks for the response, the forum is a great way to get current info quickly.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

The cheapest way to do it is to remove everything yourself and send it to an industrial rigger to copy, like S3i. They are used to doing boat rigging this way.

 

[Norman_E]

According to spar manufacturer Seldén a better rule of thumb is to re-rig after 20 000 miles.
Meanwhile inspect closely for broken strands, especially by the swages, as this is how a failure typically begins. Sudden failure with S/S 1x19 is said to be extremely rare.

My rig had covered at least 40,000 miles before I replaced it. I know because the VDO log keeps a tally of mileage since it was installed, what I don't know is whether it was installed when the boat was new or later, but the rig was original when I replaced it in 2008.

 

[SAWDOC]

I am considering whether to re-rig my Beneteau Oceanis 411 which is a 2001 model. As it is 10 year old and the mast is down this winter I thought it would be worthwhile to do now as the mast will hopefully not be down again for a few years. So the first question is should the rigging be renewed at 10 year old and if not would it be reasonable to wait as long as 15 years?

Can anyone give me an idea of the cost of doing this with the mast already down and also should the bottlescrews be done at the same time? Thanks in advance for any advice.

If you measure the lengths of your stays, you can get an online automated quote on the very useful Jimmy Green Marine website, for made up rigging. I rerigged ny 33 footer completely with them this spring and was very happy. cost very reasonable.

 

[Norman_E]

To answer your question about the bottle-screws or turnbuckles, the general view seems to be that bronze ones are unlikely to fail, but for the additional cost I would now change them on re-rig. They were not done on my re-rig, and I am now changing them, not so much because they might fail, but because the toggles that connect to the chain-plates are stainless, and they should be replaced. The turnbuckles have lost most of their chrome plating so are being replaced as well. I will have the re-assurance that everything from chain-plates to the masthead has been replaced.

One thought about rig replacement intervals, is to ask how big the rigging wire is, relative to sail area. My own boat has mainly 10mm wire, but I have seen boats with the same height mast and sail area that are mainly rigged with 8mm. I have little doubt that a boat with a heavy duty rig can have it relied on for longer that one built to minimum specification. Another factor is continuous rigging versus discontinuous. The latter saves wire and introduces extra pairs of swages, and we all know that wire entries to swages are the likely failure points, so why introduce more just to save money and a bit of weight, whilst requiring you to go up the mast to make adjustments or check tension?

 

[merlin3688]

Re Rigging

If you measure the lengths of your stays, you can get an online automated quote on the very useful Jimmy Green Marine website, for made up rigging. I rerigged ny 33 footer completely with them this spring and was very happy. cost very reasonable.

Ask a local rigger to do a rig check, if no problems are found this should be enough for your insurance company. A cost of between £1500.00 and £1800.00 is correct which includes rigging screws, as mentioned if your screws are good quality (Bronze) they may not need replacing, this would save you a fair bit of money. Most early Beneteau boats are fitted with all stainless rigging screws which maybe should be replaced. Sta Lok and Norseman are the best screws, more money but will last longer than the rigging!

 

[nimbusgb]

To answer your question about the bottle-screws or turnbuckles, the general view seems to be that bronze ones are unlikely to fail, but for the additional cost I would now change them on re-rig. They were not done on my re-rig, and I am now changing them, not so much because they might fail, but because the toggles that connect to the chain-plates are stainless, and they should be replaced. The turnbuckles have lost most of their chrome plating so are being replaced as well. I will have the re-assurance that everything from chain-plates to the masthead has been replaced.

One thought about rig replacement intervals, is to ask how big the rigging wire is, relative to sail area. My own boat has mainly 10mm wire, but I have seen boats with the same height mast and sail area that are mainly rigged with 8mm. I have little doubt that a boat with a heavy duty rig can have it relied on for longer that one built to minimum specification. Another factor is continuous rigging versus discontinuous. The latter saves wire and introduces extra pairs of swages, and we all know that wire entries to swages are the likely failure points, so why introduce more just to save money and a bit of weight, whilst requiring you to go up the mast to make adjustments or check tension?

Blimey a Jenneau 45 with 10mm rigging must be just about bomb proof. Each shroud will support 7.5 Tonnes. Crank up the rigging screws and you'll be able to fold the boat up like a ripe banana!

 

[Norman_E]

Blimey a Jenneau 45 with 10mm rigging must be just about bomb proof. Each shroud will support 7.5 Tonnes. Crank up the rigging screws and you'll be able to fold the boat up like a ripe banana!

It is the old model 45.2, and they do have a strong masthead rig. Mast and boom are both heavy sections from Sparcraft. The forestay, main backstay, cap, forward and aft lowers are all 10mm, with only the intermediates and the lower split part of the backstay in 8mm.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

It is the old model 45.2, and they do have a strong masthead rig. Mast and boom are both heavy sections from Sparcraft. The forestay, main backstay, cap, forward and aft lowers are all 10mm, with only the intermediates and the lower split part of the backstay in 8mm.

Same as on my Sun magic 44. I would recommend checking and changing the Stainless steel chain plate bolts.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

The rigger advised that the standard modern rigging as per Jeanneau SO is subject to insurance checks after 10 years.Therefore had I lost the forestay (read rigging) I would not have been covered.

Rigger talking through bum. Attitude varies from insurance company to insurancer company. None of mine have ever required a 10 year re-rig and I have asked them.

the rigger has again advised to re-rig as he found some corrosion and iffy parts at the swages.
I am again caught with a full re-rig and aother bill of €1500-2000 as the furling genoa is old and may not be able to go back on.
!

Dont know what size your boat is but a re -rig for my 36 footer was just over £800 using Z spars and that included two expensive SSB insulators They give an excellent service

 

[Norman_E]

Same as on my Sun magic 44. I would recommend checking and changing the Stainless steel chain plate bolts.

On my boat each chainplate has 4 welded studs which pass through the deck and the plate that secures the heavy stainless rod which transfers the shroud load down to the hull. A year ago I had the chainplates lifted to re-seal them and adjust the angle of the rods to straighten them. All the studs were in good condition, and new nyloc nuts were fitted.

 

[Norman_E]

.........
I am again caught with a full re-rig and aother bill of €1500-2000 as the furling genoa is old and may not be able to go back on.

If the problem is that you are concerned that the furling gear may not be able to be taken apart, then re-fitted over a new forestay, you should not worry. The new rire can be threaded though the furling gear and foils by the following method.

All the rigger has to do is cut the top swage off the old wire, and unlay it for a foot or so then cut the outer strands leaving the centre core sticking out. The new wire needs to be a bit over length, and the rigger will unlay an end and cut the core strands. The new wire, with its top swage fitted, is then re laid over the inner core of the old. The new wire can then be carefully pushed through the furler with the old wire guiding it through the various bearings. After that either the furler and new stay can be carried to the swaging machine, or a Sta-loc swageless terminal can be fitted.

P.S. It was done that way on my boat because the furling gear, whilst serviceable could not be dis-assembled without risking damage.