Re rig question

[StevenJMorgan]

Boat is ten years old and has original rigging so have decided to replace over coming months.

Have decided to get a pro / rigging company to swage mast terminals and will use sta lock or norsemans at deck level.

Question is re the deck level terminal where they enter / become the bottle screw. My current system is such that at the end of the wire at deck level there is an eye terminal, which then links into a fork which then has the screw coming off that. This seems to me like lots of joins and having looked at other boats the terminal at the end of the wire is often just the simple screw fitting which bolts straight into the body of the bottle screw. I guess the benefit with my current system is that there is more play in the terminal to allow the angle to be right, but there seems to be more joins than necessary.

My question to the forum then I guess is

1) do I replace like for like and just use eye terminals

2) do I do away with eyes and replace with forks

3) do I do away with eyes and forks and just use correct bolt style terminal for my bottle screw.

Mast is selden double spreader masthead with same rig layout as HR, Malo etc. Bottle screws and hardware are hasselfords.

As always thanks in advance for any help - may not get back to pc for a while.

Cheers.

 

[Sea Devil]

Not sure if this is helpful but - I did exactly that in Gibraltar. Had the yard do the swage terminals that drop into the mast and I did new StaLok ends and bottle screws etc...

Half way round - in the Marquesas the two lowers started to 'shred' wires at the swages. Two possible reasons - the swages were made with the wrong machine and I am almost certain that the new 'ball' ends of the swages were not exactly like for like so extra pressure came on the wire because the 'angle' of attack was not evenly distributed! I think it is very important to use the same system coming out of the mast - the deck end has more latitude..

Michael

 

[savageseadog]

You'll want a toggle that allows movement in both axes. The Sta-Lok bottle screw has the toggle action at its foot.

 

[William_H]

My opinion is that it is 6 of one half a dozen of the other. Mine orriginally had eyes and fork on the bottle srew and these were replaced with a screw end swaged onto the wire which screws into the body of the bottle screw.
An eye swaged has a loop of wire going around a thimble. The swage is a tube of copper or SS compressed onto and into the two parts of wire. The other method uses a stainless steel tube into which the wire is pressed and this tube is crushed in a circular manner to grip the strands of rigging wire.
The latter method looks tidier has less connections and you get a new part of the bottle screw. It is however probably more expensive.
Failures of rigging wires I have seen have been right at the top of the swage of the deck end of the wire. This may be exacerbated by moisture being able to get into the wire at this point. I suspect the failure mode would be the same on both types of swage connection.
Ultimately it is the degree of crushing of the swage copper or SS that determines the safety of the wire. Too little and it can pull out, too much and it will split/crack the swage. All machines should be regularly caliibrated at least with a go/nogo gauge to ensure the final crushed size is correct.
As for the toggle end this should be at the chain plate end of the bottle screw and should provide all the movement for alignment you need.
If you have any doubts about replacing the rigging then I think the cap shrouds and inner shrouds (possibly inner forestay)are more critical than backstay forestay as these are kind of duplicated by jib halyard or mainsail mainsheet tension. good luck olewill

 

[Rick]

Rigging invariably fails just inside swaged fittings, as a result of lack of articulation for the wire. I'm with the "more is better" school on making provision for leads to be fair, but obviously you only need to provide articulation at eachend of the wire once. IE if the rigging screw already has 360 degree provision to move, you don't need to resupply that at the other end of the rigging screw body.
BTW Why not use sta-loks both ends? If you're going to develop the skills to use them, then you'll save money in the long term by using them on all terminations and not buying throw away swages (assuming you'll keep the vessel through the next re-reg).