re engine Sadler 29

[Johnny WAFI]

Hello

Any recommendations for a Suffolk marine engineer to re engine a Sadler 29? She has a Bukh 20 at the moment. Intending to go with Yanmar unless advised otherwise. I have been warned that Yanmar spares have become pricey.

Johnny WAFI

 

[RivalRedwing]

All spares are pricey
Previous owner to me replaced a DV20 with a DV24 using French Marine at SYH, may be not the most modern or light engine but a reasonably straight swap. That job was done 10 years ago and I've yet to find fault with the work.

 

[Tranona]

Can't help with a local installer, but a Beta 25 is probably the best match to the boat as a replacement. A 20hp (Yanmar or Beta) will just achieve hull speed of 6.4 knots, whereas going up to a 25 will give a good reserve as you should be able to get well over 7 knots. Fuel economy will be the same for a given cruising speed. When cruising at say 5.5 knots the 25 will be running 250 or so rpm lower, so quieter. Only Beta do a 25hp (most others jump from 20 t0 30) and it is ideal for many older boats around 30' and displacement +/- 4 tonnes - the Sadler is 3.7 - where a 20 is marginal and 30 is wasted.

Spares prices are nothing really to worry about. The normal service items are much the same price for all brands and you can choose OE or pattern parts. Modern engines are so good that is really all you need for many years.

Hope this helps.

 

[penfold]

An ex-lifeboat Bukh DV24 from the chaps in Dorchester would indeed be a straight drop in as all the important bits are the same, so probably the cheapest option by some margin.

 

[sailorman]

Can't help with a local installer, but a Beta 25 is probably the best match to the boat as a replacement. A 20hp (Yanmar or Beta) will just achieve hull speed of 6.4 knots, whereas going up to a 25 will give a good reserve as you should be able to get well over 7 knots. Fuel economy will be the same for a given cruising speed. When cruising at say 5.5 knots the 25 will be running 250 or so rpm lower, so quieter. Only Beta do a 25hp (most others jump from 20 t0 30) and it is ideal for many older boats around 30' and displacement +/- 4 tonnes - the Sadler is 3.7 - where a 20 is marginal and 30 is wasted.

Spares prices are nothing really to worry about. The normal service items are much the same price for all brands and you can choose OE or pattern parts. Modern engines are so good that is really all you need for many years.

Hope this helps.

I eould always chose nanni over beta as nanni have far suerior marination of the kubota base enginewith fewer annodes for good reasonmy nanni 4 150 gave no problems in 1800hrsserviceonly annode its the new alloy exhaust elbow, a simple job every 6 months, i used to make u my replacements from 1mm zinc rod from solent annodes via ebay

 

[sailorman]

All spares are pricey
Previous owner to me replaced a DV20 with a DV24 using French Marine at SYH, may be not the most modern or light engine but a reasonably straight swap. That job was done 10 years ago and I've yet to find fault with the work.

I managed to swa perkins 4108 for a nanni 4150, all uite straightforward the exiating bed had to be rediuuuced in heifht. The transom rose by 50mmdue to lighter installatin

 

[johnalison]

There were times when I thought our Sadler 29 was over-engined, with a 15hp Volvo 2002. I suppose that we cruised at around 5.8 kn in those days, but it seems that times have changed. The trouble with too much power is the temptation to run the engine below its best speed, especially when motor-sailing. I have no trouble pushing my 5t 34 with 27hp and a 2-bladed folder, so a 29 with 25hp would be a lively beast.

 

[ianc1200]

I eould always chose nanni over beta as nanni have far suerior marination of the kubota base enginewith fewer annodes for good reasonmy nanni 4 150 gave no problems in 1800hrsserviceonly annode its the new alloy exhaust elbow, a simple job every 6 months, i used to make u my replacements from 1mm zinc rod from solent annodes via ebay

I had a terrible problem with the Peachments (ie UK Nanni dealers) some years ago and would suggest avoid at all costs - their customer servicing is/was appalling. I've re-engined different boats since then & gone to Yanmars then Beta's, and then next one will be a Beta. I would say if getting a Beta specify a PRM rather than a TMC gearbox.

 

[PetiteFleur]

Beta are excellent, I have a Beta 25hp in my Moody 33mk2. Spares are easily obtained and good prices and they will make engine bearers to suit.

 

[Tranona]

I eould always chose nanni over beta as nanni have far suerior marination of the kubota base enginewith fewer annodes for good reasonmy nanni 4 150 gave no problems in 1800hrsserviceonly annode its the new alloy exhaust elbow, a simple job every 6 months, i used to make u my replacements from 1mm zinc rod from solent annodes via ebay

The problem with Nanni now is that they don't have the dealer network like Beta does. For this boat they don't have a 25 either.

 

[Tranona]

I had a terrible problem with the Peachments (ie UK Nanni dealers) some years ago and would suggest avoid at all costs - their customer servicing is/was appalling. I've re-engined different boats since then & gone to Yanmars then Beta's, and then next one will be a Beta. I would say if getting a Beta specify a PRM rather than a TMC gearbox.

The TMC is OK with the smaller up to 25hp engines but is close to the limit with the 30, particularly if you have the 2.65:1 reduction. I fitted a PRM with my Beta 30.

 

[Tranona]

There were times when I thought our Sadler 29 was over-engined, with a 15hp Volvo 2002. I suppose that we cruised at around 5.8 kn in those days, but it seems that times have changed. The trouble with too much power is the temptation to run the engine below its best speed, especially when motor-sailing. I have no trouble pushing my 5t 34 with 27hp and a 2-bladed folder, so a 29 with 25hp would be a lively beast.

The Sadler needs just under 20hp to reach hull speed. The 25 will obviously exceed it but still cruise within its working range, just around 250rpm lower than the 20.

 

[johnalison]

The Sadler needs just under 20hp to reach hull speed. The 25 will obviously exceed it but still cruise within its working range, just around 250rpm lower than the 20.

That would be fine if reaching hull speed were a necessity. A lot would depend on what cruising the owner wants to do. If it is just weekend sailing and a two week summer cruise in home waters, then my preference for less power would be adequate. Modern yachts often function as motor-sailors, and mine is no exception in the last 20 years, and adequate power can be useful, but a Sadler 29 (which I had for 12+ years) is not really comparable, though I did once do a three-day leg to the Baltic in ours with rather little sailing. The Sadler was a nice boat, but if given the choice, I would possibly go for the 20 with a folding prop to enhance the sailing.

 

[ianc1200]

The TMC is OK with the smaller up to 25hp engines but is close to the limit with the 30, particularly if you have the 2.65:1 reduction. I fitted a PRM with my Beta 30.

I have seen lots of reported problems with TMC's on the smaller engines getting stuck in gear, can't get in gear etc. One of the issues is with PRM's you get extra bits - my Beta 20 + PRM 150 came with an oil cooler which is unusual & means different pipes. My next engine, a Beta 10, is a wing engine to the boat with the Nanni in - replacing a 1GM10 which itself replaced a Mk2 Vedette. Again I'm going to have a PRM for that - Beta try to persuade you otherwise - not sure why.

 

[Tranona]

A PRM 150 is a hydraulic gearbox and requires an oil cooler. The PRM 90 which is what i have is mechanical and does not need an oil cooler. Thee main reason I chose it is because the TMC40 is near its limit with the 30hp and the TMC60 is physically much bigger and has a different output height which did not suit my installation. I was aware of the problems of gear selection with the TMC so that was a contributory factor in the choice. Beta suggested the PRM as being more suitable and relieved me of another £400!

 

[Tranona]

That would be fine if reaching hull speed were a necessity. A lot would depend on what cruising the owner wants to do. If it is just weekend sailing and a two week summer cruise in home waters, then my preference for less power would be adequate. Modern yachts often function as motor-sailors, and mine is no exception in the last 20 years, and adequate power can be useful, but a Sadler 29 (which I had for 12+ years) is not really comparable, though I did once do a three-day leg to the Baltic in ours with rather little sailing. The Sadler was a nice boat, but if given the choice, I would possibly go for the 20 with a folding prop to enhance the sailing.

Yes, attitudes have changed in powering sailing boats partly because in many cases there is little penalty in fitting an engine that will achieve more than hull speed. The Sadler is a good example with the "normal" 20hp just adequate, but a 30 which is the next step up in most brands would indeed be a waste. However the Beta 25 fills the gap nicely. It is only 9kgs heavier and 3cm longer than the 20 and the extra hp allows more relaxed cruising with no fuel penalty. There are many boats from the 1970/80s that had Bukh 20s or Volvo 2002 that were marginal (Sadler 29 and 32, Fulmar, Moody 29 and 30 as examples) where the Beta 25 is the most appropriate replacement.