Re-engaging the locked prop debate...

MM5AHO

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 Oct 2007
Messages
2,552
Location
Central Scotland
Visit site
I found an article from Practical Boat Owner, Dec 1972 about prop drag in locked or freewheeling state.
Being 1972, most yachts then were longish keels, slow (5-7 knots), and with largish props, usually fixed blades not folding, feathering etc.

It concludes that for most boats of the day locking the prop produces less drag than allowing it to turn. The reasoning is that the predominant pitch, the gearbox and shaft resistance, etc all mean that a prop doesn't actually free wheel, it turns slowly creating (they say) more drag than if stopped.

The article shows two graphs of prop drag (which I've re-drawn as they don't scan well from a Photostat (remember those) as an attachment to this post), in which the drag increases with RPM up to a maximum drag, then starts decreasing with additional rpm. In one case, a fixed prop shows 50 lbs of drag, 125lbs drag at about 175 rpm, the max drag, then tapering off to 20lbs at 400rpm, the minimum.

The graphs show three cases, with gearbox reductions shown of 1:1, 2:1, and 3:1. It assumes that higher reductions mean bigger blades, bigger diameter props.
the higher reduction (bigger diameter) props cause more drag, and the difference between freewheeling and fixed is greater. In other words the bigger the prop the better it is fixed rather than rotating.

It goes further to relate drag (expressed as pounds of drag) to reduced boatspeed. Quoting...

" Now what does 20 or 40 lbs of drag mean in terms of loss of sailing speed? Taking the situation at 6 1/2 knots with the largest propeller (3:1 reduction), the loss of speed due to the locked propeller would be around 0.3 kn (4.5%). If the propeller were windmilling under the restraint of a large amount of shaft friction the speed loss could be 0.8 knot (12%). The smallest propeller (no reduction) would give less than a tenth of a knot loss of speed."

The article goes on to state that it assumes a three bladed prop, but points out that a 2 blade can sometimes be "hidden" behind the keel, if aligned vertically and locked like that.

Earlier in the article, the author (Nigel Warren) says he measured the shaft resistance on his own boat. he got between 2/3 and 1.0 foot pounds (I love those old fashioned units of the day), and shows how the shaft resistance results in greater drag than the locked prop drag.

he concludes also that...
"Although the curves are for one particular boat and engine, the conclusion that it is usually better to lock the propeller holds good for the majority of yachts. This is because most are tied down to speeds under engine or sail of 6-7 knots maximum."
and adds that this means slow bats will likely have big, fine pitched props.

So for me it sort of explains why I still lock the prop, and think I get better speed that with rotating. (Rival 32 - almost as old as the article!)
 

Attachments

  • propdrag.jpg
    propdrag.jpg
    73.6 KB · Views: 0
Certainly with a saildrive the prop rotates very freely and I'll bet is rotating at a similar speed when freewheeling or under power.

Personally I don't see why the a locked prop would ever have less resistance, unless it was a two-blader aligned with a skeg/keel, as why would turning slowly have more resistance than both turning quickly or turning not at all ......... however, at least for saildrives, I don't think the conclusions apply anyway.

Richard
 
Last edited:
A free wheeling prop definitely exerts less drag, but a partially turning one -- say at just above the stall speed -- is not so clear, at least it isn't to me. For example, doesn't a helicopter rotor capture more angular momentum when feathered to keep the stall region of the rotor fairly small?

Come to think of it where has JumbleDuck got to? ...he was always great at answering these fluid dynamic type questions.
 
Thermodynamics old chap. i.e. energy flows 'downhill'. In other words if there was less energy ( in this case drag) imparted to the prop when it was stopped than when it is spinning, it wouldn't spin.
 
This always seems to cause disagreement, but it seems unnecessary.
All you have to do is to look at the log's speed reading with the prop rotating and then with the prop not rotating. Repeat several times to get an average. Try this under various conditions eg light/heavy airs, running, reaching, beating. The results will of course be specific to your boat, other boats may give different results.
The real answer, if this question this bothers you, is to fit a folding or feathering prop.
 
My long keeled boat appears to have less drag with the prop freewheeling. In any event it has a Yanmar engine and locking is not allowed.
YM article..
5e4b770af4fce6a62b89e026aef5b59f_zpstl5adcqe.jpg

.
a1537dd546ef7f512f5e35cb995bc519_zps8xvb7luh.jpg

.
a66f34319f09278d436e2091d26f3e73_zpslngllg8m.jpg

.
e4f7b11d7aeaa01b0aed5cc4e76a9ea0_zps4hcr59qb.jpg
 
Last edited:
I just found it interesting that in 1972, the wisdom was that a locked prop created less drag, and today the received wisdom is the opposite.
Both claim to have proved their assertions.
 
There is a study on sailboat propeller drag, published in "Ocean Engineering" in Jan. 2008 by MacKenzie & Forrester of Strathclyde University.
This work included testing in the Glasgow/ Strathclyde Universities Towing Tank and review of other published data.
Parasitic propeller drag is shown to increase quite sharply with the braking torque on the shaft, being maximum for a locked shaft.
Google will probably find the PDF.
 
Last edited:
The drag of a prop depends on the speed it is turning. Obviously if it is 100% free and turns fast enough that there is no 'slip' it will have zero resistance. At speeds lower than that, there will be hydrodynamic drag caused by the water flowing over the blades in the same way as when motoring in reverse. When turning very slowly or locked, the flow over the blades is stalled and it is simple drag. The maximum drag for most props is just before they stall when, typically the reverse force is greater than the static drag.

In practice most modern gearboxes don't slow the prop down enough to get into that narrow band so overall it's best to leave them to spin - as long as you can stand the noise of the gearbox grungeing away when trying to sleep on passage.
 
All I know is that my boat goes 0.5-1kt slower with the prop locked than it does with it spinning.
 
The Yanmar advisory notice is in total conflict with my Jeanneau manual for a Yanmar-engined boat which specifically states to put the gearbox in reverse (to stop the prop spinning) when sailing.
 
The Yanmar advisory notice is in total conflict with my Jeanneau manual for a Yanmar-engined boat which specifically states to put the gearbox in reverse (to stop the prop spinning) when sailing.

Spend 3 grand on fitting a new gearbox to your Yanmar because the old one was shagged by locking astern and you will get it.

I did.

:(
 
The Yanmar advisory notice is in total conflict with my Jeanneau manual for a Yanmar-engined boat which specifically states to put the gearbox in reverse (to stop the prop spinning) when sailing.

No reference to it in my Yanmar operating manual for the engine, the saildrive manual or the engine workshop manual. I'm wondering if this precaution is engine/gearbox specific. My engines are 3GM30C with SD20 saildrives though the engine manuals also cover the shaft-drive gearboxes.

Question for those who have seen the warning against putting it in gear while sailing - what engine/gearbox and what document?
 
No reference to it in my Yanmar operating manual for the engine, the saildrive manual or the engine workshop manual. I'm wondering if this precaution is engine/gearbox specific. My engines are 3GM30C with SD20 saildrives though the engine manuals also cover the shaft-drive gearboxes.

Question for those who have seen the warning against putting it in gear while sailing - what engine/gearbox and what document?

IDid you see the MSA in post10? All Yanmar agents are aware of this and it is available on line. My commercial yacht has a Yanmar 3gm and after a number of years of heavy use in charter and school, the gearbox progressively failed. Its in the design of the cone drive and Yanmar have known about it for years.

Ive seen my old one in bits to understand how it works. I decided to replace with new as the yacht is in constant use. Spares are available but I couldnt take the risk.

I can now change a Yanmar gearbox in under half an hour......

Having been through all the aggro, hope others now can save themselves some wonga and leave that throttle in neutral!
 
Top