RCD

[rkane]

Following some really useful advice / pointers from people about buying a boat in America and getting some help with sailng it back to England I have now entered the nightmarish world of RCD. It now seems that this could be a major stumbling block. I was just wondering how things would stand with a craft built by the owner in the States and owned by them for more than five years before being offered for sale. This is the case with the boat that we're looking at. is this exempt as a self-built boat?And if it is not, then does anyone know about getting craft CE stamped retrospectively? Is it very expensive? Or is it just impossible to legally import used boats into Britain now? HELP!! PLEEEEZE!!!

 

[jamesjermain]

As far as the EU and the RCD is concerned this is a new boat being put on the market for the first time in the EU and therefore needs to be RCD compliant. I have recenrly been talking to some people who work in this field and, contrary to what I have believed and said in the past, it seems the process of getting a CE mark need not be prohibitively expensive. Try talking to Peter Tier of CEproof in Hamble. email peter@ceproof.com

JJ

 

[sleepy_2]

I can also recommend Peter Tier. I had problems with a new boat without an RCD certificate (builder went bust) and was worried sick by RCD horror stories. But it was all sorted out for a couple of hundred pounds. The first thing I did was to get the RCD and read it – it is available on the web and not at all difficult to figure out.

 

[Rowana]

>>The first thing I did was to get the RCD and read it – it is available on the web and not at all difficult to figure out. <<

Can you give me the URL and save me a load of time with Google

Thanks

Jim

 

[kingfisher]

http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/maritime/maritime_regulatory/rc_switchboard.htm

Agree on above:
1) It is not exempt, as it was built outside the EU. Look for the cut-of date. If it has been in the EEA+dependencies (so includes St-Maarten for instance) for a prolonged period (more than just a cursory tourist visit) before 16/06/1998, it is excempt

2) It's not that expensive, *if* your boat is less than 12m

Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com

 

[AndrewB]

Re: RCD - CEProof

Some people are a bit uneasy about the advice that has been given by CEProof. See for example the <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/forums/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=ym&Number=303162>remarks by Fatipa</A> on this board just a few days ago. They are not, I believe, a 'Notified Body' for RCD, though they might seem to give that impression. CEProof are keen to find ways to minimise the impact of RCD for customers, and while it does seem that at present enforcement is relaxed in one-off cases, I'd suggest caution, at least crosschecking their advice with the RYA.

 

[gjeffery]

The RCD is implemented within English law as Statutory Instrument 1996 No 1353. Title is The Recreational Craft Regulations 1996. ISBN 0110547519

The url is:

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1996/Uksi_19961353_en_1.HTM

In the UK the enforcement authoritirs are the Trading Standards departments of the Local Authorities. Many Trading Standards departments have a web presence and invite questions to which they promise to provide helpful replies! Don't hold your breath though, when asking questions about the Recreational Craft Regulations!

The regulations are not easy to read or to fully understand, because the requirements for technical compliance are expressed in generic terms, are mainly indicative and contained in ISO standards. Also, there is very little information regarding the administration of the Regulations in the UK. I suspect that some of the questions that I have put to the enforcing will only be answered after judicial precidents have been determined.

eg I would like toi know if "Once RCD compliant Always RCD compliant" is true. Is modification of a coded craft permitted? Does modification (eg installation of an engine, mooring/towing cleats, heads) void the RCD coding? It would, for instance, be possible to code a boat that had a very minimal fit-out and subsequently to install many components which would have to meet the requirements of the Regulations if they had been installed at the time of achieving compliance. Can a part completed kit be sold? (See private adverts in PBO)

I hope some of this helps!

 

[Bergman]

What happens if you simply ignore all this euro-nonsense, stick red ensign on back and sail around not saying anything to anyone. Perhaps keep boat in Channel Islands for a while.

Everyone else seems to ignore large lumps of euro-regs. If it does turn nasty perhaps take boat to Norway.

 

[kingfisher]

CE-marking is only concerned about putting products on the market, and not with ownership or commercial use (ie chartering). Those are still governed by national legislation (which might refer to the RCD, but not necessarily).

CE-marking is valid for the lifetime of the craft, unless *major* modifications have been implemented. Certainly with the new standard on emissions there was quite some discussion as to whether re-enginening would jeopardise the validity of the CE-mark.

For all intents and purposes, the general rule says that an installer (ie a professional) could be resposible for the CE-marking of an existing product if he implements major changes. But he only has to amend the existing conformity assessment of the boat. Which is simple, unless it pertains to the stability of the boat, in xhich case it should be reassessed by a Notified Body, if applicable.

To answer another post: what if you don't follow the rules:
-people might not want to buy your boat (think of it: owner gives you a copy of the declaration of conformanity, certified by Lloyds, and the surveyor states that there were major modifications in the keel since then, uncertified: do you really want to buy this boat?)

Towards mnft, the market surveillances have the following sticks to beat you with:
-fines: negligeable, compared to the revenue of some of these companies
-imprisonment: only know of one case, where gross neglicence (sp?) was involved.
-recall: they can order a mnft to recall or service non-compliant products (can be costly, and pray that you have a good traceability system)
-publication procedure, where they can post your name on national newspapers and TV, and a notification to the member states.: that's it you're finished in Europe. Nobody will buy your product (read the postst in Stingo's boat), and customs officials will give you hell.

But as a private owner and someday seller these aren't that much of a deterrent.

Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com

 

[gjeffery]

In theory, the penalty is a fine at up to Level 5 (I believe this is £5000) , with the possibility of imprisonment for up to 3 months. I suspect the reality is that prosecution of an individual would only occur if there was a complaint. But I would not rely on it.

I am still confused about the application of the RC Regs to specific boats, as opposed to classes of boats. Section 6 says: "These Regulations do not apply to any product which is placed on the market on or before 15th June 1998 and which complies with any safety provisions with which it would have been required to comply for it to be placed on the market in the United Kingdom on 16th June 1994."

What does this mean. Any safety provisions ??? (But not all !!!)

Does this mean that a specific boat of a class that was "on the market" before 15th June 1998 does not incur the regulations and might be imported?

I am still confused.

 

[kingfisher]

'placed on the market' should be read as 'placed on the EU-EEA market'.

So if you import a boat from outside of the EU, even if it was built in the 1970's in the US, if it has never been in the EU, it will be considered as a new boat.

Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com

 

[jamesjermain]

Re: RCD - CEProof

Yes, I wouldn't argue with any of that. CEProof, as you say, are not a notified body, their job is to advise on the preparation of a boat so that it will be in a fit state to conform to and pass such rules, inpsections and tests as might be required.

Peter Tier is a highly experienced surveyor with a good team and I would trust his advice though, of course, he is not infallible.

JJ

 

[sleepy_2]

I see that a couple of people have given you the address. Do you want me to send you a private mail with the name and number of a trading standards officer who is very familiar with the RCD?

 

[Guest]

Dear RKane,

In reply to your request the so-called "post construction assessment" would be applicable in your case. For more details please be referred to the so-called RSG - Guidelines at following web link: http://www.imci.org/downloads/RSGGuidelines.pdf
which is a very useful document to assist you with the interpretation and implementation of the RCD.
Specifically:
A) section I page 72 to 74 where you will find all essential requirements of the RCD in relation to "post construction assessment" applicable to used boats as well as which type of vessels are exempt from the provisions of the RCD.
B) Recommendation for Use (RFU) No. 42 on page 105 regarding the HIN (Hull Identification No) requirements for post construction assessed vessels.

Depending on Length of Hull of the boat to be assessed and design category to be assigned to the vessel it will be required or not the intervention of a Notified Body accordingly.
The only applicable conformity assessment modules in case of post construction assessment are: A, Aa or G. For more details please be referred to the relevant sections of the RSG Guidelines-2002 referring to these modules.

If you have any further questions please feel free to contact me. I am a Naval Architect and represent as it's CE Inspector in the Sth Pacific one of the Notified Bodies assigned by the EU Commission to carry out CE Certification in accordance to the RCD 94/25/EC and it's technical background a wide range of ISO Standards. Our orrganisation is called Int'l Marine Certification Institute - IMCI (NB assignment No 0609). IMCI has a worldwide team of approx. 27 CE inspectors in 20 countries.
In case you would like to use our services please be advised that we have 4 Inspectors in various locations in the US as well as one inspector in the UK. The contact details of all our inspectors are listed depending on country of operation @ following web link:

http://www.imci.org/english/index.php?menue=1&main=Address

For more details and more information on the RCD , relevant news, relating links, please be referred to our web site: www.IMCI.org

Hopefully I have answered your request. Have a great day and good luck to your endeavours.

Regards,

Dipl.-Ing. Nicholas Kyprianidis
MRINA CEng. / MIEAust CPEng
Naval Architect / CE Inspector / Marine Consultant
[ IMCI/NMMA - Joint Inspector for AU & NZ ]



Dipl.-Ing. Nicholas Kyprianidis
IMCI/NMMA - Joint Inspector for AU & NZ