dunedin
Well-known member
No this impact on boating is driven by specific UK government policy to separate from CE / RCD and create different UK standards, so we cannot blame either the EU or civil servants.
Rcd (recreational craft directive) brexit hot mess
- Thread starter SailingEd
- Start date
Laser310
Well-known member
UK government policy was supposed to be to, wherever possible, do away with the overly bureaucratic and protectionist EU approach to certification.., not to replace it with our own overly bureaucratic and protectionist certification standards.
So, yes, we can blame our civil servants.., or our government, if it turns out that they are behind it.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
Now you are just being silly
Avocet
Well-known member
Or... "basic economics" as some call it.
I started my career towards the end of the '80s, in the last days of British National Type Approval. Exporting was an absolute pain in the backside. To export to (what are now EU countries) you needed a different type approval for each country. Plus of course, different requirements. Yellow headlights for France only. Parking lights and fire retardancy for Germany. "Dim-dip" for the UK. In Italy the actual note the horn made was a type approval requirement... and so on.In the early '90s, we finally got our act together across the EU and agreed one common set of requirements and one type approval, permitting unlimited sales in any EU Member State with no further tests or paperwork. WHAT a breath of fresh air that was! REAL slashing of red tape... and of course, the savings and increased efficiencies were passed on to the customer.
Guess what we've just gone and done now though...
NormanS
Well-known member
You know what? My boat doesn't have any of these items. ?Or... "basic economics" as some call it.
In the early '90s, we finally got our act together across the EU and agreed one common set of requirements and one type approval, permitting unlimited sales in any EU Member State with no further tests or paperwork. WHAT a breath of fresh air that was! REAL slashing of red tape... and of course, the savings and increased efficiencies were passed on to the customer.
Guess what we've just gone and done now though...
Avocet
Well-known member
I've only skimmed through that, but I think that's the bit of UK legislation that incorporates the current EU Recreational Craft Directive (DIRECTIVE 2013/53/EU) into UK law. It's full of references to the "EU" Certificate of Conformity and CE marking and references to "the Commission" and so on. I can't see any reference to UKCA marking or anything UK-specific in there.
I'd be amazed if our government had drafted a UK-only equivalent set of regs in 2017!
Avocet
Well-known member
Neither does mine. And your point is...?
lustyd
Well-known member
Not yet. It’s only a matter of time before our leaders mandate some quirky differences, probably ones that make it harder to travel elsewhere too.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
So what is the issue. We can export to the whole of the EU using one set of rules ( which having used for years are no problem to us). One has to remember that carrying all this data meant hours of manual work. These days most of it can be produced by computer at the press of a key.Or... "basic economics" as some call it.
In the early '90s, we finally got our act together across the EU and agreed one common set of requirements and one type approval, permitting unlimited sales in any EU Member State with no further tests or paperwork. WHAT a breath of fresh air that was! REAL slashing of red tape... and of course, the savings and increased efficiencies were passed on to the customer.
Guess what we've just gone and done now though...
I do not see any boat builders likely to set up as a result of our leaving the EU though. We just do not have the market & it will soon become saturated leading to a slump in sales. Even if we did have easy access to EU markets a new builder would have to find a "niche" to get established & they are few & far between.
HOWEVER, we can now export to other countries using better trade tariffs etc. Good move I would have thought.
I hope that I am not drifting to "BREXIT" & in the wrong section- I think perhaps a moderator may interfere soon
Last edited:
Black Sheep
Well-known member
Can I congratulate you on your very appropriate username?
Daydream believer
Well-known member
Some years ago a friend of mine home built an old gaffer, starting from a GRP hull.
He wanted it to comply with the RCD plus Lloyds etc, so he paid someone to come & certify it throughout the build.
I am sure he never paid anything like the sums being quoted.
I expect that as time goes by there will be those who become qualified in such issues ( bit like freight handling services) & the costs will be much reduced & become simpler. Designers will be clued up & figures will drop off the computer as needed. Inspections will just be routine. It will, of course take time.
He wanted it to comply with the RCD plus Lloyds etc, so he paid someone to come & certify it throughout the build.
I am sure he never paid anything like the sums being quoted.
I expect that as time goes by there will be those who become qualified in such issues ( bit like freight handling services) & the costs will be much reduced & become simpler. Designers will be clued up & figures will drop off the computer as needed. Inspections will just be routine. It will, of course take time.
dunedin
Well-known member
The big issue may be things like engine emissions. Most of us have diesel engines which have been discontinued by their suppliers as no longer meet current RCD emissions regulations.
Replacing a 5 year old diesel with a new one to meet emissions regulations will never be cheap.
SailingEd
Member
I wish it was cheaper, I've contacted 3 companies, one being the company that helped write the RCR and all have quoted 4.5-5k minimum without any remedial works and they're very much cost estimates, an engine replacement would be on top of those costs and they all said if it wasn't built in post sept 2015 its unlikely to meet the criteria and would need a new one, with new regulations on emissions already on the horizon!
new engine is £6.5k for this boat, without fitting.
so were looking at;
40k for the boat
8k VAT
5k RCR
7K re-engine DIY (by time you've faffed about with new engine mounts and ancillaries)
60k.... the boats worth prob 45k on a good day but trouble is there's not many for sale in the uk each year (literally 1 or 2 and they're MAB's on the UK market neglected and unloved)!
i understand its not an issue for new boats but my budget is 50k and that don't get you a new boat! equally its not an issue for pre existing owners who could decide where to place their boat on midnight 31st Dec 2020 to 00:01 1st Jan 2021 per say' until they want to move the boat anywhere other than the UK or between uk/eu waters
the regulating bodies could have just taken a leaf out of Norway's book who accept the CE mark and don't write their own standards, even Iceland who left the EU like the UK still retain CE within the EEA, but the UK cronies had to be different and write some new red tape nonsense thats going to put us back many years to the silly nuances of old dissimilar standards with no benefit to the consumer.
its a shame, especially as new boats tend to be caravans on water unless your a millionaire, but even then im a 50k'aire so i cant afford new anyway.
Buck Turgidson
Well-known member
Engine emissions standards are continuously updated for cars with no requirement to re-engine. What fantasy land are people creating?
jdc
Well-known member
Unfortunately, as drafted, with immediate effect in the EU and to be followed in 2023 by the UK, the normal 'grandfathering' clauses - which meant that cars or boats or washing machines etc only had to have complied with the regulations at the time of build - has been removed. So if you import today a boat built in 2010, say, which was compliant with the RCD at that time, you have to assess it against the RCD as of today. This will be especially difficult with regard to engine emissions.
dunedin
Well-known member
It is only a problem when importing a boat into the UK, when these rules are due to be applied (there is an exemption till end 2022, I think).
How often have you done an import of a car recently? There are definitely requirements for this also, though not sure of details.
SailingEd
Member
I have no idea about car legislation but the RCR and UKCA mark, make no allowances for old engines or so called "grandfather rights" that's the whole point of the thread.
I wish it were fantasy land but its not, its why I'm surprised the magazines have not picked up on it.
SailingEd
Member
rules came into force 1st Jan 2021, between now and 1st jan 2023 if you import anything you will need to get it re-assessed by 1st jan 2023 otherwise you cant use it post that date
Praxinoscope
Well-known member
We still do but not in the mass production market, we have a company only 20 miles away from us that is successfully competing, (Swallow Yachts) they are at present their production facilities), but it would be great to see a U.K. manufacturer entering the volume production market, we have the designers and the skills, but we never seem to successfully manage to marry the two with an enterprising industrialist.
Bilgediver
Well-known member
Some USA boats such as Island Packet are built to meet CE rules and I believe certification is obtainable if required, Others may be doing the same it is worth looking. Had long discussions on this topic with Island Packet some years ago. They were also more than willing to provide data to help get boats pre 1998 through CE certification .