Rcd (recreational craft directive) brexit hot mess

[SailingEd]

Hi.. hopefully someone can cut through the mud here as the replacement regulation for the rcd following brexit is now the rcr (recreational craft regulations)

and this new regulation has two important bits of text or one lack of text!

the first problem is that the pre 1998 text has been removed.

it’s replaced with text the the effect that if a vessel was in uk waters on midnight 1st jan 2020 it’s deemed compliant.

the regulations go on to say any boat imported / put on the market post this date will require a UKCA (the UK’s new ce mark) but a ce mark is acceptable up until 1st of jan 2023 BUT you will need a post assessment and UKCA by that date otherwise it’s illegal.

this means a second hand Bavaria 2018 vintage would be impossible to import even though it is a ce mark post brexit as it will need re-assessment for a UKCA mark!

what this means is that it’s IMPOSSIBLE to import any used boat from the EU / eea without paying circa 5k for a UKCA assessment under the new regulations

are the rya ca etc fighting this?

without the European market we’re left scrapping the barrel of the uk used boat, who the hell wrote this nonsense? Why hasn’t it been publicised in any magazine yet? It’s a HUGE game changer for the industry.

if anyone has any information to share, or how to purchase a boat in the EU post brexit I’m all ears but advice from the RYA and a specialist import agent both say it’s impossible without breaking the new recreational craft regulations…..

 

[lustyd]

That 5k is probably worth it, given the insane prices of boats in the UK these days. The way inflation in the UK is looking, and the governments desire to continue spending as if we had unlimited wealth I imagine the VAT on an import will start to feel like pocket change before long too.

This time next year we'll probably all be millionairs!

 

[LittleSister]

But think of all those esteemed UK boat marques that will be revived by this!

 

[dunedin]

Hi.. hopefully someone can cut through the mud here as the replacement regulation for the rcd following brexit is now the rcr (recreational craft regulations)

and this new regulation has two important bits of text or one lack of text!

the first problem is that the pre 1998 text has been removed.

it’s replaced with text the the effect that if a vessel was in uk waters on midnight 1st jan 2020 it’s deemed compliant.

the regulations go on to say any boat imported / put on the market post this date will require a UKCA (the UK’s new ce mark) but a ce mark is acceptable up until 1st of jan 2023 BUT you will need a post assessment and UKCA by that date otherwise it’s illegal.

this means a second hand Bavaria 2018 vintage would be impossible to import even though it is a ce mark post brexit as it will need re-assessment for a UKCA mark!

what this means is that it’s IMPOSSIBLE to import any used boat from the EU / eea without paying circa 5k for a UKCA assessment under the new regulations

are the rya ca etc fighting this?

without the European market we’re left scrapping the barrel of the uk used boat, who the hell wrote this nonsense? Why hasn’t it been publicised in any magazine yet? It’s a HUGE game changer for the industry.

if anyone has any information to share, or how to purchase a boat in the EU post brexit I’m all ears but advice from the RYA and a specialist import agent both say it’s impossible without breaking the new recreational craft regulations…..

From what I hear (I am not an expert) your statements are broadly correct - this will create an additional expensive hurdle buying a boat and moving across UK / EU border - particularly as boats will be re-assessed against current rules, not those of of original build date.
This has always been the case for importing boats into the EU from "third countries" (e g. why bringing boats in from USA has been problematic).
I guess this is what people in UK voted for so can't grumble now. And little point trying to "fight" what has been EU rule for third country imports for decades - and the UK government's specific policy to want to diverge from EU /CE rules.
(And I guess RYA and CA members will know what they are fixing on this- working with British Marine and EU counterparts.)

 

[Laser310]

There is no reason why post-brexit britain needs to be as protectionist as the EU is..., and I think most people were hoping for a less protectionist result.

It would be a mistake to not accept EU CE.., and also the US certification for imported boats.

 

[lustyd]

There is no reason why post-brexit britain needs to be as protectionist as the EU is

Sure there is. MPs need to feel important and now they'll have more power than ever. You're right that the nation doesn't need to, but we will do it anyway and with bells on. If you think there's a chance any UK MP won't then you'll have to tell us all who it is so we can vote for them!

 

[NormanS]

We could, of course, go back to building boats here in the UK. ?

 

[Avocet]

Hi.. hopefully someone can cut through the mud here as the replacement regulation for the rcd following brexit is now the rcr (recreational craft regulations)

and this new regulation has two important bits of text or one lack of text!

the first problem is that the pre 1998 text has been removed.

it’s replaced with text the the effect that if a vessel was in uk waters on midnight 1st jan 2020 it’s deemed compliant.

the regulations go on to say any boat imported / put on the market post this date will require a UKCA (the UK’s new ce mark) but a ce mark is acceptable up until 1st of jan 2023 BUT you will need a post assessment and UKCA by that date otherwise it’s illegal.

this means a second hand Bavaria 2018 vintage would be impossible to import even though it is a ce mark post brexit as it will need re-assessment for a UKCA mark!

what this means is that it’s IMPOSSIBLE to import any used boat from the EU / eea without paying circa 5k for a UKCA assessment under the new regulations

are the rya ca etc fighting this?

without the European market we’re left scrapping the barrel of the uk used boat, who the hell wrote this nonsense? Why hasn’t it been publicised in any magazine yet? It’s a HUGE game changer for the industry.

if anyone has any information to share, or how to purchase a boat in the EU post brexit I’m all ears but advice from the RYA and a specialist import agent both say it’s impossible without breaking the new recreational craft regulations…..

I feel your pain! I type approve cars for a living, so I haven't been following the Recreational Craft Directive (and its UK equivalent) but the same thing is happening with cars.

Couple of questions / pbservations:

1. Is the RCR a UK-drafted piece of legislation? (I ask because EU "Directives" are being replaced by "Commission Regulations". For example 2007/46/EC was the "Framework Directive" for type approving cars, and it has been replaced by Commission Regulation 2018/858 - the "Framework Regulation"). BOTH, however, are EU documents. The car industry is eagerly awaiting the UK government consulting on its new "GB National Type Approval Regulations" (and indeed, has been for the last 2 years! ), so I'm a bit surprised that it has already drafted its own version of the RCD (although it might have done)!

2, Another thing to watch for, is that the regulations are likely to be "GB" RCD equivalents, rather than UK (because Northern Ireland must stay in regulatory alignment with the EU). Incidentally, I don't know what this Will do when it comes to moving second hand boats to NI and then across to the mainland!

3. It is unheard of for the EU (or UK) to introduce regulations without any consultation. This would have been going on for at least a year - firstly, informal consultation between civil servants drafting it and the industry, then a public consultation. I'd expect something that big to go backwards and forwards at least 2, maybe 3 times. RYA and the marine industry trade association should be very obvious stakeholders and should have been consulted (and aware of it), if it is indeed a UK piece of legislation. Sadly, if it's an EU piece of legislation, we voted ourselves out of having a seat at that table...

4. UKCA marking is a huge problem, sitting in the lap of BEIS. They've kicked the can down the road to 01/01/23, as you say, because there are so few labs accredited to issue UKCA. Basically, we're testing to the same EN standards (at least at present) as we would for a CE mark, but we will need to do them by a lab accredited as a "notified body" for that subject, to the UK government. I think our government were a bit upset when so many labs across the EU said they couldn't be bothered getting the UKCA accreditation! Fortunately, the regulatory framework for cars differs a bit here. We will have to CE mark (UKCA mark) spare parts and a few other bits, but the "type" approval covers a lot of it for new cars. Our biggest fear, is the UK civil service's reputation for "gold plating". What we anticipate, is a situation where something that has been CE-marked by an EU "notified body", will in some way fall short of exactly the same requirements when the UKCA mark is applied for. Apart from that, it's just utterly pointless duplication of effort, that hampers UK companies, because few companies here manufacture solely for the home market, so they'll have to jump through both sets of hoops, whereas the EU internal market is big enough for a lot of manufacturers to make a good living and then concentrate on non-EU markets much larger than the UK.

5. On the plus side, if it's only going to cost £5k, you might find a few of the bigger manufacturers (Bavaria, Beneteau, Janneau, perhaps) will think it worth their while to retrospectively UKCA-mark existing types of boat so boost their residual values and thus stimulate demand for their new ones. I agree that £5kis unreasonable as a one-off but if they sold a few dozen boats a year, it wouldn't hurt much.

6. Ultimately, of course, UK customers will be picking up the tab for all this extra red tape...

 

[Avocet]

We could, of course, go back to building boats here in the UK. ?

Yes, because if a market of 450 million customers wasn't worth anyone's while doing it here, then a market of 65 million definitely will be...

 

[NormanS]

Yes, because if a market of 450 million customers wasn't worth anyone's while doing it here, then a market of 65 million definitely will be...

What a defeatist attitude!

 

[Stork_III]

I feel your pain! I type approve cars for a living, so I haven't been following the Recreational Craft Directive (and its UK equivalent) but the same thing is happening with cars.

Couple of questions / pbservations:

1. Is the RCR a UK-drafted piece of legislation? (I ask because EU "Directives" are being replaced by "Commission Regulations". For example 2007/46/EC was the "Framework Directive" for type approving cars, and it has been replaced by Commission Regulation 2018/858 - the "Framework Regulation"). BOTH, however, are EU documents. The car industry is eagerly awaiting the UK government consulting on its new "GB National Type Approval Regulations" (and indeed, has been for the last 2 years! ), so I'm a bit surprised that it has already drafted its own version of the RCD (although it might have done)!

Been in force in law, since 3 August 2017 apparently. The Recreational Craft Regulations 2017

 

[Tranona]

if anyone has any information to share, or how to purchase a boat in the EU post brexit I’m all ears but advice from the RYA and a specialist import agent both say it’s impossible without breaking the new recreational craft regulations…..

Unfair to say it has not been covered - extensively in the mags and by the RYA and BMF. The rules are explained on the RYA site.

Not as dramatic as you suggest. Pre 1997 are still exempt IF built in the EU EEA, or in Europe in 1997. The UKCA is currently the same as the RCD and not aware of any plans to diverge. AFAIK "converting" existing RCD boats to UKCA is a paperwork exercise - not ideal but not a complete reassessment, although there may be issues with boats that have been modified since build.

If you are planning to buy a boat in the EU and import it then best consult the RYA about the process. In reality though, given the need to pay VAT on imported boats the actual number of people affected by this is likely to be small.

Agree that it limits choice, but suggest that paying VAT and transport costs are bigger barriers than recertification

 

[bitbaltic]

Yes, because if a market of 450 million customers wasn't worth anyone's while doing it here, then a market of 65 million definitely will be...

It’s a much more discerning market in the U.K. though, everybody wants trotter berths bilge keels and forward heads. So there will definitely definitely be fortunes to be made for any builder of proper boats like that.

 

[SailingEd]

For those saying it’s just 5k that’s the tip of the iceberg, if your engine don’t meet the latest emission standards you will need to change that…

5k is pretty much the assessment costs as far as I know - without remedial works! Then you’ve got VAT so an EU purchase needs to be darn cheep and they’re pretty much on par with uk prices.

it just doesn’t benefit the consumer if anything it ruins choice for boat buyers, which is bonkers because you can buy any old crap on eBay with a China export label without the same repercussions.

 

[SailingEd]

Unfair to say it has not been covered - extensively in the mags and by the RYA and BMF. The rules are explained on the RYA site.

Not as dramatic as you suggest. Pre 1997 are still exempt IF built in the EU EEA, or in Europe in 1997. The UKCA is currently the same as the RCD and not aware of any plans to diverge. AFAIK "converting" existing RCD boats to UKCA is a paperwork exercise - not ideal but not a complete reassessment, although there may be issues with boats that have been modified since build.

If you are planning to buy a boat in the EU and import it then best consult the RYA about the process. In reality though, given the need to pay VAT on imported boats the actual number of people affected by this is likely to be small.

Agree that it limits choice, but suggest that paying VAT and transport costs are bigger barriers than recertification

unfortunately it is as dramatic as I said, the pre 1998 exemption is removed from the rcr and it’s the date you import it…

I have consulted the rya and that’s exactly what they said :/

importing boats from the EU is a thing of the past.

 

[jaminb]

What a defeatist attitude! ☹

I am sure the tiny United Kingdon market will be able to afford these exclusive UK boats built by a workforce of unicorns (retrained ex; construction; NHS; care; haulage; worker)

 

[Buck Turgidson]

For those saying it’s just 5k that’s the tip of the iceberg, if your engine don’t meet the latest emission standards you will need to change that…

5k is pretty much the assessment costs as far as I know - without remedial works! Then you’ve got VAT so an EU purchase needs to be darn cheep and they’re pretty much on par with uk prices.

it just doesn’t benefit the consumer if anything it ruins choice for boat buyers, which is bonkers because you can buy any old crap on eBay with a China export label without the same repercussions.

But it's 2021. Have you just noticed 2016s news?
I'm sure I'm not the only one who took the decision to buy and position my boat so that it would be where I wanted it at midnight 2020/21.

You could make the same argument about everything that changed when the UK joined the EU. But it would be equally old news.

 

[Momac]

I can understand a new boat would need to be UKCA marked from the proposed mandatory date of January 2023 regardless of the country of origin.
But it does not seem logical at any future time to apply this to CE marked boats (or any other goods ) made before January 2023.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I can understand a new boat would need to be UKCA marked from the proposed mandatory date of January 2023 regardless of the country of origin.
But it does not seem logical at any future time to apply this to CE marked boats (or any other goods ) made before January 2023.

Exactly the same for non EU boats before the B word. The UK has aligned EU boats with the rest of the world. I see no problem with that. Ever tried to import boat or a classic car from the US?

 

[Wing Mark]

Exactly the same for non EU boats before the B word. The UK has aligned EU boats with the rest of the world. I see no problem with that. Ever tried to import boat or a classic car from the US?

Indeed.
This is how the EU treats the rest of the world, our trade deal kind of requires us to do the same, and hence we end up treating the EU as the EU treats the rest of the world.
It's all down to the UK public sector, who had a big had in shaping the EU rules.

TBH the marine industry nay be quite pleased, because it pushes the balance towards buying a new boat instead of a recent used one.