Spyro
Well-Known Member
Should I buy a spare tiller pilot now because I don't fancy having another Simrad one?
Raymarine on the rocks?
- Thread starter Twister_Ken
- Start date
geoffcollins
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Some of their products are OK, but once you've had B&G, Raymarine stuff seems so-so.
I will not be surprised if they collapse.
[/ QUOTE ]
Who else is there that does such a complete and integrated set of products? If you don't go raymarine, then you'll be going for the mix and match approach. Does anyone else tick all the boxes from Autopilot to plotter to VHF to Radar?
Geoff
Some of their products are OK, but once you've had B&G, Raymarine stuff seems so-so.
I will not be surprised if they collapse.
[/ QUOTE ]
Who else is there that does such a complete and integrated set of products? If you don't go raymarine, then you'll be going for the mix and match approach. Does anyone else tick all the boxes from Autopilot to plotter to VHF to Radar?
Geoff
liverpool
Well-Known Member
but if one has raymarine kit already what action is recommended - esp re buying spares? Or should Im just pray they survive?
lw395
Well-Known Member
Personally I do not care for 'integration'
I like the depth sounder to work independently of the GPS, etc etc.
I would not like all the systems to be [--word removed--] up by one software snafu.
ymmv
I like the depth sounder to work independently of the GPS, etc etc.
I would not like all the systems to be [--word removed--] up by one software snafu.
ymmv
fireball
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I would not like all the systems to be [--word removed--] up by one software snafu.
[/ QUOTE ] I guess by the thousands of posts on here that it is a regular occurance that the integrated kit fouls up .... no? really? perhaps that is because in the main it is good and reliable ... there are always exceptions of course, but the vast majority are happy that their speed/wind can integrate with each other and a chartplotter giving you VMG to wind or waypoint - repeating depth/speed/cog/sog at helm/cockpit and chart table ... of course, you could just buy several standalone systems to "repeat" the data ....
I would not like all the systems to be [--word removed--] up by one software snafu.
[/ QUOTE ] I guess by the thousands of posts on here that it is a regular occurance that the integrated kit fouls up .... no? really? perhaps that is because in the main it is good and reliable ... there are always exceptions of course, but the vast majority are happy that their speed/wind can integrate with each other and a chartplotter giving you VMG to wind or waypoint - repeating depth/speed/cog/sog at helm/cockpit and chart table ... of course, you could just buy several standalone systems to "repeat" the data ....
Richard10002
Well-Known Member
There are, of course, many of us who choose not to pay, (or cant afford to pay), the prices commanded by Raymarine stuff.
When I bought Rogue in 2006, I was seriously impressed by the Raymarine C and E series stuff, but fell off my chair when I was told the price - they had to be taking the mickey
I've managed to make my Standard Horizon DSC radio and my Lowrance Plotter integrate seamlessly with the inherited Raymarine stuff, so dont have a problem with a bit of mixing and matching - saving a bunch of folding stuff into the bargain.
BTW - nothing wrong with repeated data and stuff. Handy if something breaks down.
When I bought Rogue in 2006, I was seriously impressed by the Raymarine C and E series stuff, but fell off my chair when I was told the price - they had to be taking the mickey
I've managed to make my Standard Horizon DSC radio and my Lowrance Plotter integrate seamlessly with the inherited Raymarine stuff, so dont have a problem with a bit of mixing and matching - saving a bunch of folding stuff into the bargain.
BTW - nothing wrong with repeated data and stuff. Handy if something breaks down.
lw395
Well-Known Member
I do know of more than one yacht where all the instruments have failed simultaneously.
Personally, if my GPS is taken out by a fault in the wiring or whatever, I'd like my depth sounder to be on a different system.
I am well aware of the advantages of calculating true wind etc, it's a balance you have to weigh up. On the Raymarine equipped yachts I have sailed, I've not been very impressed with the calibration so the true wind was drivel anyway. At amateur level, computed vmg to windward is quite liable to be wrong, few people use it to great effect. This is not unique to Raymarine of course.
I hope raymarine get sorted out, but the economies they made in technical staff do not inspire confidence.
Personally, if my GPS is taken out by a fault in the wiring or whatever, I'd like my depth sounder to be on a different system.
I am well aware of the advantages of calculating true wind etc, it's a balance you have to weigh up. On the Raymarine equipped yachts I have sailed, I've not been very impressed with the calibration so the true wind was drivel anyway. At amateur level, computed vmg to windward is quite liable to be wrong, few people use it to great effect. This is not unique to Raymarine of course.
I hope raymarine get sorted out, but the economies they made in technical staff do not inspire confidence.
wotayottie
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I promised never to buy Raymarine again after they closed down Portsmouth and moved the factory to Poland/hungary/china.
Goodbye RM, no sympathy sorry!
[/ QUOTE ]
If you consistently take that approach I cant imagine that you buy anything much!
I promised never to buy Raymarine again after they closed down Portsmouth and moved the factory to Poland/hungary/china.
Goodbye RM, no sympathy sorry!
[/ QUOTE ]
If you consistently take that approach I cant imagine that you buy anything much!
wotayottie
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Problem is RM still employ a lot of UK people, mainly technical. This kind of high margin - high tech business is just about the only 'proper' industry the UK can support.
Once those kind of jobs go what's left?
We can't all be hair dressers or work in tourism.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why not? Thats what happens in countries like Greece or Portugal. We are in relative decline and there is no law of economics that says it cannot continue. If we want it to stop then we have to do something to stop it. Like buying British rather than cheapest.
Which is why it wont stop of course.
Problem is RM still employ a lot of UK people, mainly technical. This kind of high margin - high tech business is just about the only 'proper' industry the UK can support.
Once those kind of jobs go what's left?
We can't all be hair dressers or work in tourism.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why not? Thats what happens in countries like Greece or Portugal. We are in relative decline and there is no law of economics that says it cannot continue. If we want it to stop then we have to do something to stop it. Like buying British rather than cheapest.
Which is why it wont stop of course.
doris
Well-Known Member
FWIW my chap is working his t*ts off and it's all Raymarine. Also his view is that Garmin would still be very interested in them because there is so much in the Raymarine cupboard that G do not have.
fireball
Well-Known Member
Ah - yes .... which is why we've bought a SH VHF and Chartplotter ... but I have managed to get other raymarine kit cheaper using these forums and Ebay ...
fireball
Well-Known Member
All ours went a few years ago ... when we were hit by lightning (no, we weren't on the boat at the time) ... but it took out all the electronics and other electric systems - seperates wouldn't help!
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Personally I do not care for 'integration'
I like the depth sounder to work independently of the GPS, etc etc.
I would not like all the systems to be [--word removed--] up by one software snafu.
ymmv
[/ QUOTE ]
My instruments are all integrated. It doesn't stop them working independently perfectly well! I can certainly operate my wind, log, depth and compass instruments without having the chart-plotter switched on, and vice-versa (though less usefully!). A software snafu isn't going to wipe out my instruments, it may simply make them a little less convenient to use, and loss of the integration would simply remove some of the useful outputs such as true wind, SOG and so on.
Personally I do not care for 'integration'
I like the depth sounder to work independently of the GPS, etc etc.
I would not like all the systems to be [--word removed--] up by one software snafu.
ymmv
[/ QUOTE ]
My instruments are all integrated. It doesn't stop them working independently perfectly well! I can certainly operate my wind, log, depth and compass instruments without having the chart-plotter switched on, and vice-versa (though less usefully!). A software snafu isn't going to wipe out my instruments, it may simply make them a little less convenient to use, and loss of the integration would simply remove some of the useful outputs such as true wind, SOG and so on.
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
There certainly are problems with intergartion. I have a Raymarine ST7000 linked to a Raymarine GPS. I had to turn the GPS off the otherday, as it was bleeping every 2 minutes with a low signal alert - loss of position, and the autopilot then did not work - "Seatalk error". I have now disconnected the Seatalk connection as I cannot accept that the failure of one instrument Scews up another.
lw395
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
There certainly are problems with intergartion. I have a Raymarine ST7000 linked to a Raymarine GPS. I had to turn the GPS off the otherday, as it was bleeping every 2 minutes with a low signal alert - loss of position, and the autopilot then did not work - "Seatalk error". I have now disconnected the Seatalk connection as I cannot accept that the failure of one instrument Scews up another.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bus related hang ups are not unique to Raymarine. With my B&G system, not having the wind sensor connected can lock the whole system, disabling the depth sounder. Happened to me on a falling tide, having just put the mast in. We got away with it, luckily.
I would seriously contemplate the autopilot not sharing any wiring at all with anything else, the GPS powered independently (complete with back up battery) and opto isolated from any NMEA loads. And a lead line can be handy!
But then I can't get excited about the autopilot steering to the wind, I actually like sailing the boat! Each to his own....
There certainly are problems with intergartion. I have a Raymarine ST7000 linked to a Raymarine GPS. I had to turn the GPS off the otherday, as it was bleeping every 2 minutes with a low signal alert - loss of position, and the autopilot then did not work - "Seatalk error". I have now disconnected the Seatalk connection as I cannot accept that the failure of one instrument Scews up another.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bus related hang ups are not unique to Raymarine. With my B&G system, not having the wind sensor connected can lock the whole system, disabling the depth sounder. Happened to me on a falling tide, having just put the mast in. We got away with it, luckily.
I would seriously contemplate the autopilot not sharing any wiring at all with anything else, the GPS powered independently (complete with back up battery) and opto isolated from any NMEA loads. And a lead line can be handy!
But then I can't get excited about the autopilot steering to the wind, I actually like sailing the boat! Each to his own....
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There certainly are problems with intergartion. I have a Raymarine ST7000 linked to a Raymarine GPS. I had to turn the GPS off the otherday, as it was bleeping every 2 minutes with a low signal alert - loss of position, and the autopilot then did not work - "Seatalk error". I have now disconnected the Seatalk connection as I cannot accept that the failure of one instrument Scews up another.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bus related hang ups are not unique to Raymarine. With my B&G system, not having the wind sensor connected can lock the whole system, disabling the depth sounder. Happened to me on a falling tide, having just put the mast in. We got away with it, luckily.
I would seriously contemplate the autopilot not sharing any wiring at all with anything else, the GPS powered independently (complete with back up battery) and opto isolated from any NMEA loads. And a lead line can be handy!
But then I can't get excited about the autopilot steering to the wind, I actually like sailing the boat! Each to his own....
[/ QUOTE ]
The Autopilot is not connected anymore, and have no intentions of connecting it. The Pilot is absolutley no good once a beam sea has built up, and is incapable of stopping her rounding up. I have checked with Raymarine, and they say that I need the new Gyro control box at £1000. This will anticpate the start of a roll and counteract early. - Well I remain scheptical, as she is an easy boat to steer and the weight on the rudder is very light.
[ QUOTE ]
There certainly are problems with intergartion. I have a Raymarine ST7000 linked to a Raymarine GPS. I had to turn the GPS off the otherday, as it was bleeping every 2 minutes with a low signal alert - loss of position, and the autopilot then did not work - "Seatalk error". I have now disconnected the Seatalk connection as I cannot accept that the failure of one instrument Scews up another.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bus related hang ups are not unique to Raymarine. With my B&G system, not having the wind sensor connected can lock the whole system, disabling the depth sounder. Happened to me on a falling tide, having just put the mast in. We got away with it, luckily.
I would seriously contemplate the autopilot not sharing any wiring at all with anything else, the GPS powered independently (complete with back up battery) and opto isolated from any NMEA loads. And a lead line can be handy!
But then I can't get excited about the autopilot steering to the wind, I actually like sailing the boat! Each to his own....
[/ QUOTE ]
The Autopilot is not connected anymore, and have no intentions of connecting it. The Pilot is absolutley no good once a beam sea has built up, and is incapable of stopping her rounding up. I have checked with Raymarine, and they say that I need the new Gyro control box at £1000. This will anticpate the start of a roll and counteract early. - Well I remain scheptical, as she is an easy boat to steer and the weight on the rudder is very light.
Richard10002
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The Autopilot is not connected anymore, and have no intentions of connecting it. The Pilot is absolutley no good once a beam sea has built up, and is incapable of stopping her rounding up. I have checked with Raymarine, and they say that I need the new Gyro control box at £1000. This will anticpate the start of a roll and counteract early. - Well I remain scheptical, as she is an easy boat to steer and the weight on the rudder is very light.
[/ QUOTE ]
MMM! Sounds like the all singing all dancing Raymarine kit that they sell you for big bucks, needs another £1k of kit to make it work properly - not really very satisfactory.
I'm convinced that a large chunk of what you pay is for the name.
The Autopilot is not connected anymore, and have no intentions of connecting it. The Pilot is absolutley no good once a beam sea has built up, and is incapable of stopping her rounding up. I have checked with Raymarine, and they say that I need the new Gyro control box at £1000. This will anticpate the start of a roll and counteract early. - Well I remain scheptical, as she is an easy boat to steer and the weight on the rudder is very light.
[/ QUOTE ]
MMM! Sounds like the all singing all dancing Raymarine kit that they sell you for big bucks, needs another £1k of kit to make it work properly - not really very satisfactory.
I'm convinced that a large chunk of what you pay is for the name.
lw395
Well-Known Member
As soon as we leave flat water, autopilots get complicated, at least from a mathematical control theory viewpoint.
In a beam sea, a human helm is doing quite a lot of observation, prediction, averaging and feedback.
The autopilots on open 60's are amazingly sophisticated and powerful, both in force they can quickly apply to the helm and in processing power.
Mostly I just want something to hold the course reasonably steady in a fairly flat sea. I had a Navico wheelpilot which would do that, but not without manicly sawing the wheel back and forth. I always thought it needed another button labelled 'FFS Calm Down'.
I think part of the problem may have been calibration or adjustment, but I didn't use it enough to optimise it. I believe some of the modern pilots have adaptive software which takes time to learn the characteristics of the boat and get better with 'practice'.
In a beam sea, a human helm is doing quite a lot of observation, prediction, averaging and feedback.
The autopilots on open 60's are amazingly sophisticated and powerful, both in force they can quickly apply to the helm and in processing power.
Mostly I just want something to hold the course reasonably steady in a fairly flat sea. I had a Navico wheelpilot which would do that, but not without manicly sawing the wheel back and forth. I always thought it needed another button labelled 'FFS Calm Down'.
I think part of the problem may have been calibration or adjustment, but I didn't use it enough to optimise it. I believe some of the modern pilots have adaptive software which takes time to learn the characteristics of the boat and get better with 'practice'.
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
As far as having all your eggs in the one basket..... I know it must look tidier but if the one major piece of kit fails that provides all your electronic info', then you are left having to nav' using the grey cells, charts and a compass etc..."oh dear" I hear, "dread the thought!"
By having seperate battery supplies for engine and 'domestic' you could set up to be switched over in an emergency so that one will service the other.
Having all the instruments seperate you have an improved safety set up especially if you'r a cruiser with intent on going into the 'unknown'.
By having seperate battery supplies for engine and 'domestic' you could set up to be switched over in an emergency so that one will service the other.
Having all the instruments seperate you have an improved safety set up especially if you'r a cruiser with intent on going into the 'unknown'.
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
As soon as we leave flat water, autopilots get complicated, at least from a mathematical control theory viewpoint.
In a beam sea, a human helm is doing quite a lot of observation, prediction, averaging and feedback.
The autopilots on open 60's are amazingly sophisticated and powerful, both in force they can quickly apply to the helm and in processing power.
[/ QUOTE ]
What do the fit to an open 60? Is it not a standard Smart Pilot?
As soon as we leave flat water, autopilots get complicated, at least from a mathematical control theory viewpoint.
In a beam sea, a human helm is doing quite a lot of observation, prediction, averaging and feedback.
The autopilots on open 60's are amazingly sophisticated and powerful, both in force they can quickly apply to the helm and in processing power.
[/ QUOTE ]
What do the fit to an open 60? Is it not a standard Smart Pilot?
