Raymarine internal GPS sensor

[PaulGooch]

I fitted a new Raymarine C90W plotter as part of an electronics upgrade at the beginning of the year. The advertising blurb made a big thing of the internal GPS sensor and the integrated Navionics charts. I quickly found out that the charts weren't worth much and purchased a Navionics Gold card. My local chandlers said the internal GPS should work fine, but i called Raymaine as well, for a second opinion. The guy from Raymarine asked what my boat was and then told me that it would be fine, as they had carried out lots of testing on boats just like mine.

When i fitted it, it worked fine, very well in fact. But, the last three weekends it hasn't worked so well. On startup, it's taken a long time to get a position fix. This Saturday it took 38 minutes to get a stable position fix and while we were at anchor 12 miles offshore, it lost the fix a couple of times. Sunday morning, before we left the boat, i switched it on for a while and it worked straight away. Spoke to Raymarine today and they say there are no known issues with the internal GPS units. I'm wondering if perhaps recent weather/atmospherics might be the cause and the internal antenna isn't really reliable. Raymarine have suggested a power on reset, returning the plotter to factory default, sounds a bit like "please re-install Windows"

I'm certainly not going to be very happy if i have to fork out over 200 quid for an external antenna to get a stable and reliable system. In my mind, that makes the plotter unfit for use, i bought it to use in my boat, with the supplied internal antenna. With this and the problems i had initially with the Navionics cartography, plus still waiting for some software updates to allow PC networking with the plotter, i really am wishing i'd have bought Garmin instead.

Anyone else have any experience with these ?

 

[aquapower]

Have been using a raymarine 435 with internal gps for a few years now and had no problem, it was an option at the time to have external gps but didnt think it was necessary.
also use hand held gps that sits on dashboard next to plotter and thats fine aswell.
It sounds like yours has a problem if it worked ok before, get it back to raymarine before warranty runs out.

 

[NoviceRod]

I have a new Raymarine C90 with basic built-in charts in the MF705. I have a Navionics Gold on order, but not received yet.

C90 worked fine on sea trial 3 June, but had difficulty getting a fix in Sutton Harbour, Plymouth on Wed 9 June around noon. It seemed to resolve after a few attempts (about 10min), and was fine on voyage to Torquay that day, and over the weekend.

I can't get the supplied software to work on my laptop either.

Hope this helps.

 

[Philiz]

Sorry to hear of your problem Paul. Just out of interest, why are you against having an external aerial?
My Garmin has an external mushroom unit and hasn't yet failed to get a position.

I take it this unit sends your position to the VHF for DSC, so a 'power on reset' would be a big ask in an emergency situation, I'd throw it back at Raymarine personally.

 

[stefan_r]

When i fitted it, it worked fine, very well in fact. But, the last three weekends it hasn't worked so well. On startup, it's taken a long time to get a position fix. This Saturday it took 38 minutes to get a stable position fix and while we were at anchor 12 miles offshore, it lost the fix a couple of times. Sunday morning, before we left the boat, i switched it on for a while and it worked straight away.

Funny that it's intermittent....and it once worked 100%.

Sort of like a dry joint or something....but even so...not great.

I had an iffy E80 from Raymarine a few years back, in fairness they swapped it after we tried a few diagnostics.


Do you have a handheld? Then you could at least compare and see if it is atmospheric?

The other thing to try is in a few sub-menus there is an "attached accessory test" or something...you could try running that and see if it "sees" the GPS?

 

[PaulGooch]

I have a new Raymarine C90 with basic built-in charts in the MF705. I have a Navionics Gold on order, but not received yet.

C90 worked fine on sea trial 3 June, but had difficulty getting a fix in Sutton Harbour, Plymouth on Wed 9 June around noon. It seemed to resolve after a few attempts (about 10min), and was fine on voyage to Torquay that day, and over the weekend.

I can't get the supplied software to work on my laptop either.

Hope this helps.

The software can be a pig, what problem are you having/what are you trying to do ?

 

[PaulGooch]

Sorry to hear of your problem Paul. Just out of interest, why are you against having an external aerial?
My Garmin has an external mushroom unit and hasn't yet failed to get a position.

I take it this unit sends your position to the VHF for DSC, so a 'power on reset' would be a big ask in an emergency situation, I'd throw it back at Raymarine personally.

Not against the external antenna as such Phil. Just that when i was deciding between the Garmin and Raymarine, the Raymarine was built in and Garmin was external. Raymarine assured me it would work with my boat, if not it would have been another £200 plus and that would have made it too expensive compared to the Garmin.

 

[PaulGooch]

Have been using a raymarine 435 with internal gps for a few years now and had no problem, it was an option at the time to have external gps but didnt think it was necessary.
also use hand held gps that sits on dashboard next to plotter and thats fine aswell.
It sounds like yours has a problem if it worked ok before, get it back to raymarine before warranty runs out.

Funny that it's intermittent....and it once worked 100%.

Sort of like a dry joint or something....but even so...not great.

I had an iffy E80 from Raymarine a few years back, in fairness they swapped it after we tried a few diagnostics.


Do you have a handheld? Then you could at least compare and see if it is atmospheric?

The other thing to try is in a few sub-menus there is an "attached accessory test" or something...you could try running that and see if it "sees" the GPS?

I do have a Garmin Etrex hand held, that was working fine on the dash. I looked at the GPS status page in the menu and it was showing the satellites that the plotter was picking up, some were getting "lost" and then showing up again, which is when the position fix was being lost. At this time the Garmin was picking up 8 or so satellites.

I'm inclined to agree with the suggestions to send it back, which is pretty much what i thought. Thanks for the replies guys, i'll let you know how i get on, hopefully not too much messing around from Raymarine.

 

[PaulGooch]

Quick update.

Phone call to Raymarine yesterday, they suggested going to the boat Saturday (next free day for me) and resetting the plotter to factory defaults. Whilst there, note the software version. It turns out, after phoning them back today, the point of noting the software version is so that they can then tell me if i have the latest version. If not, i can download the latest one from their website. Erm.... i already said i did the update months ago.

Thinking about the above and deciding i'm not happy about it, i call them back today. Different guy, first question he asks "where is it fitted", "Merry Fisher 805 helm" i reply. "There's your problem" says he, "Not built to be fitted internally". Yeah, right, so how has it been working since January ? Before buying it i asked the supplier, Fox's at Ipswich and also called Raymarine and both told me it would work fine in my boat. "Don't know who told you that he said, should be mounted outside". "Oh" says i, "The guy yesterday suggested a reset", "No, be a waste of time". I told him if it wasn't expected to work in my boat i'd need a refund. The he tells me my problem is with the supplier, i'll need to speak to them. He tells me to take it back to them and they'll get it sorted for me.

So, i phone Fox's at Ipswich. Answer phone, so i leave a message. Three hours later, no reply, so i call again. Oh, erm, ah, yes, i've been trying to call you. Hmm, yes, of course you have. I explain the problem and tell him Raymarine said i had to take it back to them. "I'll need to speak to Raymarine, will call you back directly" he says. A while later, someone from Raymarine calls me "i understand you have a problem with a plotter" Doh!

I explain all of the above.

He tells me the point of checking the software version was so they could see if i was using the latest. If not, i could go back to the boat, remove the plotter, take it to Fox's, who would update it. Try it for a trip and if it didn't work, send it back for them to look at. Once again, i tell him i did the update already, he confirms there has only been one update released.

The he suggests i take it to Fox's to have the GPS software (different software to that which runs the plotter) updated, if i don't have the latest. Ok, can i not just take the update with me and do it myself ? He offers to email it to me. While we're talking, i'm looking in my "Raymarine" folder in My Documents, to see if i still have the update i downloaded, yes, i do ! "Erm.... i still have the update and i seem to have a file here to update the GPS software too". Turns out both files are part of the download from their website. He also informs me that these plotters are designed to be installed inside, but they don't work in every boat.

Upshot is, i now have to drive 170 miles (round trip) to the boat and check that both pieces of software are indeed up to date, do the reset and see if that fixes it. If not, i can send it back to them and they'll take a look at it, all at my cost of course.

Don't you just love getting the run around. Funny how it worked for months and funny how the £40 from Ebay Garmin hand held was working fine when the £1700 Raymarine was struggling. Just in case anyone is wondering, here's where it is installed :

 

[Philiz]

Mmm, sounds like their after sales support isn't as good as Garmin. Maybe you could pressure the supplier to do you a really good deal on an external aerial, or maybe a very good trade in on a Garmin?

 

[PaulGooch]

Mmm, sounds like their after sales support isn't as good as Garmin. Maybe you could pressure the supplier to do you a really good deal on an external aerial, or maybe a very good trade in on a Garmin?

I'm not at all impressed with Raymarine support, or the support given today by Fox's Phil. I won't buy Raymarine again. I know someone who had a problem with a Garmin 4012 a few weeks ago, turned out to be a glitch in a software update. Their support was outstanding. They sent a new unit out and collected the suspect one, no cost to him. Raymarine want to mess me around, cost me money and when the plotter goes back they are talking 5 to 8 working days turnaround.

 

[Philiz]

I had a similar experience with my Garmin 4008. Had a problem, they e-mailed me an update to see if that would cure it, it didn't, so they said send it back. They sent be a brand new unit, 5 days form sending it off to receiving the new one. They even backed up my stuff to an SD card and sent it with the unit. I accept things can go wrong and so long as folk go out of their way to put things right, I'm happy. I can't fault Garmin's product support and I really like the plotter.

 

[PaulGooch]

I also accept they can go wrong. All i wanted was for someone to say "no problem, we'll get it looked at and send you a new one". Didn't want to get bounced back and forth.

Had a three week saga when i first bought the plotter and a Navionics Gold card. The card had a fault and i got bounced around between Raymarine and Navionics. Raymarine didn't want to know, at all. They said cartography was nothing to do with them, although they make the plotters dependant upon Navionics and at the time it wasn't clear if it was a problem with the plotter or the card. It was a nightmare.

 

[David_J]

I emailed a question to Raymarine support about three weeks ago using their system. About a week later I got an email reply saying that if I hadnt already had an answer I should re submit my question. Hopeless!

 

[PaulGooch]

Went to the boat yesterday (Thursday) and checked the software versions. I'm pleased to note that i'm not the village idiot, all files were fully up to date, as i've been telling Raymarine all along.

Phoned Raymarine and spoke to yet another different person, had to explain it all again. He actually had me power the plotter back up and read the version numbers out to him, guess he still thought i was a retard. While i'm getting the numbers for him the "position fix lost" alarm is on and off like mad, "can you hear the alarms" i asked him, "no" says he lol

He then suggests it might be a problem with the satellites, as Ofcom sometimes turn a few of them off. OK, so now he definitely thinks i'm a retard Grrrr. I don't want to speak to him any more, so i tell him i'll just take it back for a refund and get a Garmin, they seem to work with the satellites turned off, at least my hand held was working OK.

Take it back to Fox's and tell them i want a refund and guess what, after explaining the whole sorry sage to four different members of staff, they decide they need to phone Raymarine. The guy at Raymarine tells them IF it's faulty, they will send a complete new unit to Fox's, who can then refund my money.

Current situation is the plotter is back at Raymarine, waiting for them to look at it. If they say it's faulty, Fox's will refund my money, If they say there is nothing wrong with it..... erm, arh, erm Well, i told them i don't want it back, if there is nothing wrong with it, it is unfit for use, it won't work in my boat, reliably.

We'll see what happens Monday, supposed to have an answer by then. Hoping for a refund and get a Garmin 4010 and HD radar. Sadly won't be able to get a refund on the Raymarine digital radar i recently fitted, which works very well. That'll be an Ebay opportunity for someone, just four months old.

 

[oceanfroggie]

Coming down the Atlantic coast of Ireland last Wed on a pals 43, the onboard Raymarine lost the sat fix FIVE times (ie that annoying lost fix message and beep), but the portable Garmin never flinched! The raymarine took anything between 2 and 10 mins to reestablish a fix. No wonder they've been over taken in the marine market sector! They have always had excellent radar and autohelm products, but imho have always been an extremely poor plotter proposition. Recommend anybody doing an electronics revamp of their boat switch to Garmin, simply in a different league.

 

[PaulGooch]

Coming down the Atlantic coast of Ireland last Wed on a pals 43, the onboard Raymarine lost the sat fix FIVE times (ie that annoying lost fix message and beep), but the portable Garmin never flinched! The raymarine took anything between 2 and 10 mins to reestablish a fix. No wonder they've been over taken in the marine market sector! They have always had excellent radar and autohelm products, but imho have always been an extremely poor plotter proposition. Recommend anybody doing an electronics revamp of their boat switch to Garmin, simply in a different league.

Yup, my hand held Garmin was working a treat.

I updated the speed camera database on my Garmin sat nav last night, sitting in a small upstairs office it was happily "locked" onto 8 satellites. Left it on the kitchen table this morning, still picks 8 up.

 

[PaulGooch]

Phone call to Raymarine today, by Foxs who are now supposed to be dealing with this.

The guy at Raymarine who is "supposed" to be sorting this out didn't look at it Friday and he has "left a note" on it to say that no-one else is to touch it, he will deal with it personally. Unfortunately he's "not in" today. He'll have a look at it tomorrow, or maybe Wednesday.

 

[PaulGooch]

Just got off the phone with Raymarine. They plugged the plotter in and it worked, so there can't be anything wrong with it.

Besides, it isn't a safety issue. There is a disclaimer on the plotter to say it shouldn't be relied upon. It's apparently only an aid (according to Raymarine) and i should carry paper charts.

Actually, i carry a laptop and hand held GPS, with chart software installed. Fixed and hand held compasses, paper charts and plotting equipment. Doesn't mean the damn plotter shouldn't be reliable though.

Not sure where i go from here, having to consider a small claims claim with the chandlers

 

[Tresner]

I just ordered up a set of plotters for the livingroom and the penthouse. Internal antenna upstairs and corded external downstairs. Only a few inches of position can make a big difference for signal strength down stairs. From the looks of your setup the roof is blocking the signal. The antenna needs to see the sky. Going one direction the signal comes in starboard and the reverse course comes in port. You get the picture. Best to just pony up and get a little mushroom external antenna.

And if Littleship is reading this, YES I'm getting a mast mounted radar dome.

Bernie