Kristoria
Member
John that;s exactly the mind set I came up with and thanks for the confirmation but do have a look at Marsupial's answer this forum item page 2. Now that's the way I shall go. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Raymarine Display Intigration
- Thread starter Kristoria
- Start date
Kristoria
Member
Re: Still don\'t understand...
See Marsupial
Page two this item/forum.
See Marsupial
Page two this item/forum.
Kristoria
Member
Re: Don\'t really understand...
John your posting followed a few minutes after the definitive post by Marsupial
Suggest you have a look.
John your posting followed a few minutes after the definitive post by Marsupial
Suggest you have a look.
Kristoria
Member
Re: Raymarine Display Integration
Apparently your wrong see Marsupial
this form item page two. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Apparently your wrong see Marsupial
this form item page two. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Duffer
Well-Known Member
Re: Raymarine Display Integration
Well I'm jiggered! Why would Raymarine say the C screen cannot be networked if it can? I don't want to rain on your parade Marsupial/Nautibusby but are you sure you have got 2 C screens and not an earlier networkable colour radar plotter - RL70CRC something that could be networked by HSB (and cost 2-£3000)? You say you use C Map which these used whereas the up-to-date C screen uses Navionics Gold.
Some further points:
(1) The E Screen does give a brighter screen and Platinum chart capability as well as definite networking ability (Gold and C Screen are fine IMHO even though the C screen can be difficult to see in very bright direct sunlight - a reason to put it under the sprayhood where it will get some shade). E screen MAY have higher resolution than equivalent C screen size - please check...
(2) I understand, as Llamados says, you can connect an optional Raymarine keyboard to a networked panel display.
(3) Not all flat panel TVs have a monitor input. Our 17" £250 Argos job (not networked) does, it uses 42W, probably double an 8" E80 but then it's twice the screen diagonal.
(4) If you already have a C or E screen it is well worth downloading version 3 of the operating software. You need your serial number to register online and a 6mb+ compact flash card to download it. As well as Navtex and AIS support it gives you much better customisation of Data pages including graphical depth/wind/compass options amongst other tweaks. Free download from Raymarine website. Anyone tried connecting Navtex or AIS yet - how is it?
(5) It would be illegal to copy a Navionics CF card - whether or not it would actually work is another matter.
(6) If you do buy 2 new C screens and they don't connect via HSB don't blame me! Please let me and John Wilson know if it does!
PS I would strongly recommend to any reader that they get an integrated radar before getting a second chartplotter display...
Well I'm jiggered! Why would Raymarine say the C screen cannot be networked if it can? I don't want to rain on your parade Marsupial/Nautibusby but are you sure you have got 2 C screens and not an earlier networkable colour radar plotter - RL70CRC something that could be networked by HSB (and cost 2-£3000)? You say you use C Map which these used whereas the up-to-date C screen uses Navionics Gold.
Some further points:
(1) The E Screen does give a brighter screen and Platinum chart capability as well as definite networking ability (Gold and C Screen are fine IMHO even though the C screen can be difficult to see in very bright direct sunlight - a reason to put it under the sprayhood where it will get some shade). E screen MAY have higher resolution than equivalent C screen size - please check...
(2) I understand, as Llamados says, you can connect an optional Raymarine keyboard to a networked panel display.
(3) Not all flat panel TVs have a monitor input. Our 17" £250 Argos job (not networked) does, it uses 42W, probably double an 8" E80 but then it's twice the screen diagonal.
(4) If you already have a C or E screen it is well worth downloading version 3 of the operating software. You need your serial number to register online and a 6mb+ compact flash card to download it. As well as Navtex and AIS support it gives you much better customisation of Data pages including graphical depth/wind/compass options amongst other tweaks. Free download from Raymarine website. Anyone tried connecting Navtex or AIS yet - how is it?
(5) It would be illegal to copy a Navionics CF card - whether or not it would actually work is another matter.
(6) If you do buy 2 new C screens and they don't connect via HSB don't blame me! Please let me and John Wilson know if it does!
PS I would strongly recommend to any reader that they get an integrated radar before getting a second chartplotter display...
tome
Well-Known Member
Re: Raymarine Display Integration
A few further points...
The E series has a much faster processor and is significantly brighter - truly sunlight viewable. It also has the faster HSB2 bus
The E80 has 640x480 resolution, the E120 800x600
If you do fit a VGA screen it will probably need to go outdoors as you will want to do all the master connections (Seatalk instruments, radar, NMEA, AIS, fishfinder etc) below at the chart table and not take them all the way to the cockpit. The VGA screen will be nowhere near as bright, and won't be readable outdoors on a bright day so you've lost much of the main advantages of the system.
We make daylight viewable waterproof VGA screens and could have 'won' one, but have to admit they are nowhere as good as the E series
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone tried connecting Navtex or AIS yet - how is it?
[/ QUOTE ]
Works fine, but requires the NMEA input to be set to 38,400 baud which means you lose the ability to input fast heading via NMEA - therefore MARPA becomes bit crappy. I'm building a fast multiplexer to integrate the 2
A few further points...
The E series has a much faster processor and is significantly brighter - truly sunlight viewable. It also has the faster HSB2 bus
The E80 has 640x480 resolution, the E120 800x600
If you do fit a VGA screen it will probably need to go outdoors as you will want to do all the master connections (Seatalk instruments, radar, NMEA, AIS, fishfinder etc) below at the chart table and not take them all the way to the cockpit. The VGA screen will be nowhere near as bright, and won't be readable outdoors on a bright day so you've lost much of the main advantages of the system.
We make daylight viewable waterproof VGA screens and could have 'won' one, but have to admit they are nowhere as good as the E series
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone tried connecting Navtex or AIS yet - how is it?
[/ QUOTE ]
Works fine, but requires the NMEA input to be set to 38,400 baud which means you lose the ability to input fast heading via NMEA - therefore MARPA becomes bit crappy. I'm building a fast multiplexer to integrate the 2
Duffer
Well-Known Member
Re: Raymarine Display Integration
Thanks for that Tome
I'm still unclear whether 2 C screens can be actually be networked rather than just share e.g. data from ST60s...
Thanks for that Tome
I'm still unclear whether 2 C screens can be actually be networked rather than just share e.g. data from ST60s...
crisjones
Well-Known Member
Re: Raymarine Display Integration
Duffer & Tome,
I am also a bit unsure from the earlier posts exactly what level of networking can be achieved with 2 or more C series. Obviously any display can recieve and display info that is available on the NMEA and HSB data cables, this is how the older RL70 C-Map type screens worked. They could share cartography and radar info across the network on multi screens from one chart cartridge and one master radar display - and they worked very well.
However what we do not seem to have established yet is wether the new C series can share cartography / radar data over the HSB bus (or is it me not reading it correctly?). Basically it comes down to what network protocol the C & E series use for cartography/radar data and if these are networkable. Obviously they are on the E series, but not sure yet on the C series.
I would welcome comments from anyone who has definitely networked two C series displays so that they can display cartography from one Navionics card onto 2 displays simultaneously without any card swapping!!!
Hope that lot makes sense.
Duffer & Tome,
I am also a bit unsure from the earlier posts exactly what level of networking can be achieved with 2 or more C series. Obviously any display can recieve and display info that is available on the NMEA and HSB data cables, this is how the older RL70 C-Map type screens worked. They could share cartography and radar info across the network on multi screens from one chart cartridge and one master radar display - and they worked very well.
However what we do not seem to have established yet is wether the new C series can share cartography / radar data over the HSB bus (or is it me not reading it correctly?). Basically it comes down to what network protocol the C & E series use for cartography/radar data and if these are networkable. Obviously they are on the E series, but not sure yet on the C series.
I would welcome comments from anyone who has definitely networked two C series displays so that they can display cartography from one Navionics card onto 2 displays simultaneously without any card swapping!!!
Hope that lot makes sense.
tome
Well-Known Member
Re: Raymarine Display Integration
Marsupial and NautiBusby seem to agree they can be networked, although this goes against the official Raymarine line. We don't have any C series here so cannot try this out, BUT:
1) The Seatalk2 bus is certainly fast enough to allow networking
2) In the System Integration Setup Menu of the C series there is an option to make the display the Data Master, and a further option to switch on the Seatalk2 bus
It could be that Raymarine are aiming the E series at the networked market and don't want to push the C series except for standalone applications? Having said that, I'd want to be sure before parting with any cash.
Perhaps Marsupial or NautiBusby could check out their System Integration setups on their 2 C series screens and report back?
Marsupial and NautiBusby seem to agree they can be networked, although this goes against the official Raymarine line. We don't have any C series here so cannot try this out, BUT:
1) The Seatalk2 bus is certainly fast enough to allow networking
2) In the System Integration Setup Menu of the C series there is an option to make the display the Data Master, and a further option to switch on the Seatalk2 bus
It could be that Raymarine are aiming the E series at the networked market and don't want to push the C series except for standalone applications? Having said that, I'd want to be sure before parting with any cash.
Perhaps Marsupial or NautiBusby could check out their System Integration setups on their 2 C series screens and report back?
pvb
Well-Known Member
Re: Raymarine Display Integration
[ QUOTE ]
Marsupial and NautiBusby seem to agree they can be networked
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering whether Marsupial actually has C-series displays, rather than the RL70CRC displays. He's referred to a C-Map chart cartridge, which the older RL series used, whereas the C-series displays use Navionics Gold cartridges. Also, in previous posts, he's complained about the data boxes which pop up on the radar screen - again, this sounds like an RL series display. Might be worth clarifying exactly what kit he has before we spend lots of time investigating our set-up menus!
[ QUOTE ]
Marsupial and NautiBusby seem to agree they can be networked
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm wondering whether Marsupial actually has C-series displays, rather than the RL70CRC displays. He's referred to a C-Map chart cartridge, which the older RL series used, whereas the C-series displays use Navionics Gold cartridges. Also, in previous posts, he's complained about the data boxes which pop up on the radar screen - again, this sounds like an RL series display. Might be worth clarifying exactly what kit he has before we spend lots of time investigating our set-up menus!
tome
Well-Known Member
Re: Raymarine Display Integration
Hadn't picked up on the C-Map, good point. Perhaps they can clarify?
I'm pretty sure that Raymarine would have pushed the networking capabilities of the C series if it were possible, considering that they were released long before the E series
Hadn't picked up on the C-Map, good point. Perhaps they can clarify?
I'm pretty sure that Raymarine would have pushed the networking capabilities of the C series if it were possible, considering that they were released long before the E series
Marsupial
Well-Known Member
Re: Raymarine Display Integration
Hi Everyone, to clarify : my setup is circa 2003, the GPS is seatalk and its all connected up via Raymarine HSB. The chart cartridge is C Map. I can setup radar and chart plotter on either posiition. I can overlay radar on plotter on either position. The radar does NOT do course up display which caused confusion till I realised it didnt work, Head up or North Up are both OK. As a tool for finding out where you are its OK.
Way points have to be sent from one position to the other which can be a pain. The Plotter has tidal info that is "good enough" for decision making when crossing the channel.
I use the system to determine where I am and as a nav repeater in the cockpit, I use the radar plotter overlay alot in fog but do most of my navigation with a Yeoman Sport which required the addition of a nmea interface to make it work. Radar plotting with the Yeoman is better than the MARPA system in the Radar. RL70C does "ring a bell" but will check when I am next on board.
Sorry but I am no great fan of toy plotters be they eagle, Garmin, Simrad or raymarine etc - they go wrong too often. Given the job again I would fit a nav repeater and a simple GPS.
Hi Everyone, to clarify : my setup is circa 2003, the GPS is seatalk and its all connected up via Raymarine HSB. The chart cartridge is C Map. I can setup radar and chart plotter on either posiition. I can overlay radar on plotter on either position. The radar does NOT do course up display which caused confusion till I realised it didnt work, Head up or North Up are both OK. As a tool for finding out where you are its OK.
Way points have to be sent from one position to the other which can be a pain. The Plotter has tidal info that is "good enough" for decision making when crossing the channel.
I use the system to determine where I am and as a nav repeater in the cockpit, I use the radar plotter overlay alot in fog but do most of my navigation with a Yeoman Sport which required the addition of a nmea interface to make it work. Radar plotting with the Yeoman is better than the MARPA system in the Radar. RL70C does "ring a bell" but will check when I am next on board.
Sorry but I am no great fan of toy plotters be they eagle, Garmin, Simrad or raymarine etc - they go wrong too often. Given the job again I would fit a nav repeater and a simple GPS.
pvb
Well-Known Member
Well, that sorts that out then...
So when you said in an earlier post "From what you say the C series Plotter and Radar I have networked on my boat dont work - which is strange because they do.", you were being, shall we say, economical with the truth.
So when you said in an earlier post "From what you say the C series Plotter and Radar I have networked on my boat dont work - which is strange because they do.", you were being, shall we say, economical with the truth.
Marsupial
Well-Known Member
Re: Well, that sorts that out then...
Thanks for your comments, I am only trying to help,
The question was does the C type network - the answer is YES
If the question is "does networked Raymarine equipment work" the answer is yes its works as well as did before it was networked"
If the question is "does it work very well" then this is where I have more than a few issues the kit "works" in manufacturers terms - if you think that squinting at a little screen with inaccurate information on it is a definition of working then it does that - however (I still moor up IN the railway station in Boulogne such is the accuracy of the C Chart!) so I suggest that the truth you seek is in the quality of the equipment that seems to be "working" - suffice to say that for me personally I have had enough experience with these things from the days of DECCA to to the present day to treat them with scepticisum - I was hoodwinked into believing that the latest version had solved all the problems - that was 2003 - I can say that the kit impresses most people that come on board but my own experiements on its accuracy find it lacking. The MARPA function is a joke (Coasters doing 70kts whats all that about?), the course up display is nonsense but Raymarine are adamant that there is nothing wrong. But these issues are nothing to do with the networkability of the kit.
I say again : Given the task of equipping for serious sailing again (which as soon as SWMBO gets better is what we want to do) I would not clutter the nav area or the helm with an electronic plotter, but use a SIMPLE position fixing device -The simple GPS when connected to a proper (paper) chart via the Yeoman it is IMHO the best solution after all, you only really need to know is where you are relative to above and below water obstructions. However, a stand lone radar visible from the helm is worth its weight in gold in fog but forget the MARPA. A repeater with COG SOG and DTW visible from the helm is useful too but not essential if you have a autohelm with this functionality.
Not forgetting of course a simple piece of magentised material balanced on a pin so it always points in the same direction - it works on magnetisum and they dont turn it off, not even at the weekends.
Thanks for your comments, I am only trying to help,
The question was does the C type network - the answer is YES
If the question is "does networked Raymarine equipment work" the answer is yes its works as well as did before it was networked"
If the question is "does it work very well" then this is where I have more than a few issues the kit "works" in manufacturers terms - if you think that squinting at a little screen with inaccurate information on it is a definition of working then it does that - however (I still moor up IN the railway station in Boulogne such is the accuracy of the C Chart!) so I suggest that the truth you seek is in the quality of the equipment that seems to be "working" - suffice to say that for me personally I have had enough experience with these things from the days of DECCA to to the present day to treat them with scepticisum - I was hoodwinked into believing that the latest version had solved all the problems - that was 2003 - I can say that the kit impresses most people that come on board but my own experiements on its accuracy find it lacking. The MARPA function is a joke (Coasters doing 70kts whats all that about?), the course up display is nonsense but Raymarine are adamant that there is nothing wrong. But these issues are nothing to do with the networkability of the kit.
I say again : Given the task of equipping for serious sailing again (which as soon as SWMBO gets better is what we want to do) I would not clutter the nav area or the helm with an electronic plotter, but use a SIMPLE position fixing device -The simple GPS when connected to a proper (paper) chart via the Yeoman it is IMHO the best solution after all, you only really need to know is where you are relative to above and below water obstructions. However, a stand lone radar visible from the helm is worth its weight in gold in fog but forget the MARPA. A repeater with COG SOG and DTW visible from the helm is useful too but not essential if you have a autohelm with this functionality.
Not forgetting of course a simple piece of magentised material balanced on a pin so it always points in the same direction - it works on magnetisum and they dont turn it off, not even at the weekends.
pvb
Well-Known Member
Re: Well, that sorts that out then...
Barking, simply barking.
Barking, simply barking.
tome
Well-Known Member
Re: Well, that sorts that out then...
[ QUOTE ]
economical with the truth
[/ QUOTE ]
Steady Tiger! Don't think anyone is trying to mislead here, it's entirely possile that the models are confused especially as this has been a fast-moving market with a lot of development over the past 5 years
I develop nav equipment for marine survey for a living and I get confused between the many Raymarine variants, so can well understand why others do also
It would be useful for all if we can establish for sure whether or not the C series can be networked via the Seatalk2 bus. If the question had arisen when we had C series in our lab I could have checked it out
For the sake of clarification, the C series only takes Navionics Gold CF cards and is equipped with Seatalk and Seatalk2 plus NMEA interfaces. It does not have HSB
So I for one will await Marsupial and NautiBusbys report on exactly what their set up is
[ QUOTE ]
economical with the truth
[/ QUOTE ]
Steady Tiger! Don't think anyone is trying to mislead here, it's entirely possile that the models are confused especially as this has been a fast-moving market with a lot of development over the past 5 years
I develop nav equipment for marine survey for a living and I get confused between the many Raymarine variants, so can well understand why others do also
It would be useful for all if we can establish for sure whether or not the C series can be networked via the Seatalk2 bus. If the question had arisen when we had C series in our lab I could have checked it out
For the sake of clarification, the C series only takes Navionics Gold CF cards and is equipped with Seatalk and Seatalk2 plus NMEA interfaces. It does not have HSB
So I for one will await Marsupial and NautiBusbys report on exactly what their set up is
pvb
Well-Known Member
Re: Well, that sorts that out then...
[ QUOTE ]
So I for one will await Marsupial and NautiBusbys report on exactly what their set up is
[/ QUOTE ] Don't hold your breath. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
[ QUOTE ]
So I for one will await Marsupial and NautiBusbys report on exactly what their set up is
[/ QUOTE ] Don't hold your breath. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Kristoria
Member
Re: Raymarine Display Integration
Dear Marsupial,
I don't want to 'jump' to conclusions but in my kind of plane English can I extract from your previous correspondence that your honest preference even though you have as far as I can tell, most of the modern yacht navigational electronics on board you boat is for 1) Paper sea charts, of any publisher, along with 2) All traditional manual navigational instruments possibly a scientific calculator 3) Paper Manuals such as Nories & the Nautical Almanac; and then the probability of a 4) A GPS with numeric Digital readout for consolidation of DR/Fix positions and maybe distance toward and or off. I am about to set up a boat for the first time in twenty years holding radio and Offshore Yachtmaster Cert., from 1975 and am struggling to understand why I need more than the aforementioned. Am I thinking correctly; am I too old fashioned or have you got the job inhand 'right'. I'm not trying to be fancy, high minded or whatever else conclusion may be put on my writing, but I am trying to get to the bottom of a conundrum that I find confusing and I have already found your views informative and sensible. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Dear Marsupial,
I don't want to 'jump' to conclusions but in my kind of plane English can I extract from your previous correspondence that your honest preference even though you have as far as I can tell, most of the modern yacht navigational electronics on board you boat is for 1) Paper sea charts, of any publisher, along with 2) All traditional manual navigational instruments possibly a scientific calculator 3) Paper Manuals such as Nories & the Nautical Almanac; and then the probability of a 4) A GPS with numeric Digital readout for consolidation of DR/Fix positions and maybe distance toward and or off. I am about to set up a boat for the first time in twenty years holding radio and Offshore Yachtmaster Cert., from 1975 and am struggling to understand why I need more than the aforementioned. Am I thinking correctly; am I too old fashioned or have you got the job inhand 'right'. I'm not trying to be fancy, high minded or whatever else conclusion may be put on my writing, but I am trying to get to the bottom of a conundrum that I find confusing and I have already found your views informative and sensible. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Marsupial
Well-Known Member
Re: Raymarine Display Integration
Chris,
I admit it, I was duped by the industry, Raymarine suggested that I would see many benefits from the setup they suggested but basicaly I still prefer my old setup - a Yeoman and a GPS, and a standalone radar - I live and learn - but I dont have a scientific calculator on board! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The boat was new in 2003 and the standard spec included a 6000+ autohelm, ST60 instruments and a RL530CRC plotter, I added a radar, RL70C and it is networked to the plotter via the HSB. I moved the colour plotter from the Nav station to the cockpit and the fitted the mono display at the nav station - the system works I have radar and plotter at both positions the colour display is readable in sunlight but see previous post as to how "good" it is. . . "good" is subjective I know but its not as good as I was led to believe it would be.
I can confirm that the kit is an RL70C Plus mono radar display and RL530CRC Plus plotter connected via HSB2 with a seatalk GPS.
The NMEA out ports did NOT work, I tried taking NMEA from the course computer or either of the displays, it needed an interface. (confirmed at the time by Raymarine)
The Charts I can confirm ARE C Charts I have one in my hand as a type this.
Cheers
David
Chris,
I admit it, I was duped by the industry, Raymarine suggested that I would see many benefits from the setup they suggested but basicaly I still prefer my old setup - a Yeoman and a GPS, and a standalone radar - I live and learn - but I dont have a scientific calculator on board! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The boat was new in 2003 and the standard spec included a 6000+ autohelm, ST60 instruments and a RL530CRC plotter, I added a radar, RL70C and it is networked to the plotter via the HSB. I moved the colour plotter from the Nav station to the cockpit and the fitted the mono display at the nav station - the system works I have radar and plotter at both positions the colour display is readable in sunlight but see previous post as to how "good" it is. . . "good" is subjective I know but its not as good as I was led to believe it would be.
I can confirm that the kit is an RL70C Plus mono radar display and RL530CRC Plus plotter connected via HSB2 with a seatalk GPS.
The NMEA out ports did NOT work, I tried taking NMEA from the course computer or either of the displays, it needed an interface. (confirmed at the time by Raymarine)
The Charts I can confirm ARE C Charts I have one in my hand as a type this.
Cheers
David
tome
Well-Known Member
Re: Raymarine Display Integration
David
Thanks for coming back with details, it helps to paint a much clearer picture. Your displays are fitted with HSB2 interfaces which allow networking. They are not C series displays (despite the C suffix) and belong to an entirely different range. As mentioned previously, the Raymarine range is confusing!
Having looked at the handbook, I believe that NMEA out should be available from your set up but it needs to be turned on. You should not need the external Seatalk interface
Before fitting our E series we had the same setup as yourself: Yeoman plotter and GPS plus standalone radar. This worked well, but the new setup is so much more versatile
It's probably fair to conclude from this (in the absence of somebody lending me a pair of C series diaplays to confirm 100%) that the C series cannot be networked and the E series can
Cheers
Tom
David
Thanks for coming back with details, it helps to paint a much clearer picture. Your displays are fitted with HSB2 interfaces which allow networking. They are not C series displays (despite the C suffix) and belong to an entirely different range. As mentioned previously, the Raymarine range is confusing!
Having looked at the handbook, I believe that NMEA out should be available from your set up but it needs to be turned on. You should not need the external Seatalk interface
Before fitting our E series we had the same setup as yourself: Yeoman plotter and GPS plus standalone radar. This worked well, but the new setup is so much more versatile
It's probably fair to conclude from this (in the absence of somebody lending me a pair of C series diaplays to confirm 100%) that the C series cannot be networked and the E series can
Cheers
Tom
