Rant!

[jordanbasset]

Have to say I have never hit a boat at anchor or had a problem recognising a boat at anchor. First clue is that they are normally in a place that is used for anchoring, second the boat is not moving, third they have an anchor chain/rope out. If you cannot recognise that then do not see how an anchor ball would help.
As for motoring with out a cone, life is too short to worry about it, okay worst scenario you gave way when you did not need to, it is not really a big deal. I am forced to give way to the numerous ferries in the Ionian because they have not complied with collision regs, but I have all the time in the world, sailing is supposed to be relaxing.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I'm curious what it has to do with time. Surely they're just as necessary or unnecessary now as they ever were?

What's changed?

Pete

Well, for one thing, they rely entirely on a visual watch being kept with an efficiency that will ensure they are seen. Other threads suggest this is not the case with most commercial shipping. Second, if motor sailing, how is one to see a motoring cone when it may be masked by whichever sails are in use? Finally, I carry a set of day marks that are about 18 inches from top to bottom. That means that they simply can't be distinguished at any meaningful distance; at 100m they only subtend an angle of about 1/4 of a degree. If I'm that close to another vessel, I'm too close (in the uncrowded waters of Scotland).

Finally, we all know of vessels who have day marks firmly rivetted to the mast. These are inappropriate a lot of the time!

I'd go so far as to say that the day marks were NEVER a good solution to a problem, and are irrelevant in these days of radar watches in commercial vessels.

 

[prv]

Have to say I have never hit a boat at anchor or had a problem recognising a boat at anchor. First clue is that they are normally in a place that is used for anchoring

But sometimes they are not.

For example, just outside the main channel (but still inside the row of smaller channel buoys) in the middle of Southampton Water.

second the boat is not moving,

In the real world, as opposed to the Ionian playground, it's quite likely to be moving relative to the water and to yourself. If it's not immediately adjacent to a chunk of land (see previous point) then it can be hard to detect that it is not moving over the ground.

third they have an anchor chain/rope out.

You're right about this one. But it's not necessarily easy to see from a little way away, especially if thin rope rather than chain.

When I've been on Ionian charters I never used an anchor ball or motoring cone either, but the situation there is not applicable everywhere.

Pete

 

[ricky_s]

As for motoring with out a cone, life is too short to worry about it, okay worst scenario you gave way when you did not need to, it is not really a big deal. I am forced to give way to the numerous ferries in the Ionian because they have not complied with collision regs, but I have all the time in the world, sailing is supposed to be relaxing.

That is okay if the rules are changed so sailing is the same status as motoring.

 

[Tranona]

When I've been on Ionian charters I never used an anchor ball or motoring cone either, but the situation there is not applicable everywhere.

Pete

Thats the whole point. Anchor balls are very common in popular South Coast anchorages because such places are often also used heavily by moving traffic. Was in Newtown River last week, and although it was more like a parking lot, there was still value in knowing which boats were actually anchored, particularly when they are not all lying the same way.

I can't remember the last time I saw a motorsailing cone in use, which suggests that people find them of little use. As I suggested earlier, in the Ionian the majority of boats are motoring or motorsailing and it is not difficult to keep out of the way of others.

 

[mjcoon]

OK, actually colliding is not clever, but I've had to make an unexpected manoeuvre before on suddenly spotting an anchor warp at the last minute.

Isn't there a story/joke about a US warship demanding that a lightship should give way to it?

Mike.

 

[prv]

I can't remember the last time I saw a motorsailing cone in use, which suggests that people find them of little use.

I will often sling mine up if I'm motorsailing with the headsails set and drawing.

Don't bother if motoring with just the main strapped amidships, it's pretty obvious what's happening then.

Pete

 

[Tranona]

I must look out for your then! Always an exception etc.

 

[prv]

I must look out for your then! Always an exception etc.

I did say "often", not always

Also I'm not the only one who sails our boat, as Colhel found out a few weeks ago

Pete

 

[Tranona]

So I can blame it on him if the boat is not behaving according to the book!

One of the things I have noticed when sailing my distinctive boat is that people are always waving at me which I take as a compliment - but it could of course mean that they think I am a plonker. Do you have the same problem!

Nobody except the Chrustys of this world (of which there aren't many) seem to notice the Bavaria!

 

[Wansworth]

Yes, I know what you mean. But it is not the fault of the coding requirements. I used to own a bareboat charter boat and know they are both items of compulsory equipment. Does not, of course mean that everybody complies, nor that enforcement through inspection is rigorous!

However, as you know motoring or motorsailing is the dominant way of getting around, so not so sure lack of use of cones represents a serious hazard.

When the Romans were rowing about with their sails up it was more obvious......!

 

[Tranona]

Don't get too many of them in the Solent - though you might see a few stuck in a timewarp coming out of the lagoon at Butrint (Albania - just across from Corfu and site of a huge Roman settlement).

 

[wotayottie]

Have to say I have never hit a boat at anchor or had a problem recognising a boat at anchor. First clue is that they are normally in a place that is used for anchoring,

That assumes you are familiar with the area. What if you are cruising in new areas?

second the boat is not moving,

very difficult to tell at a distance - see below

third they have an anchor chain/rope out. If you cannot recognise that then do not see how an anchor ball would help.

My main concern in the Bristol channel and off Falmouth are the big ships that anchor in the roads . When they are a mile or so away, its often impossible to tell whether they are moving or not and certainly whether they have an anchor out. So I use a pair of stabilised 10x50 bins to look for an anchor ball. Got to say I am much less concerned about small boats at anchor.

Personally I do use an anchor ball and anchor light. Seems to me that is you were in an anchorage and were hit by another boat, you could have difficulty with insurance claims because the absence of the ball or light could really be relevant to the accident.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

So much for charter companies needing an ICC from the hirer

They don't, or not all of them do anyway.

If they did they'd never be able to hire to anyone from a country that didn't issue ICCs, and the overwhelming majority of nations don't issue ICCs.

 

[Tomahawk]

never owned one - never used one, seldom see them
do not own an anchor ball either
darn it - I am such a dangerous ant-social incompetent sailor
some-one somewhere should do something

Phaps you could try turning right?




sorry........ am being vervy flippant

 

[dylanwinter]

you underestimate yourself

Phaps you could try turning right?




sorry........ am being vervy flippant

if in doubt... turn right is the general rule

it applies to politics and motoring a boat

 

[pugwash94]

So which other rules will those that have arbitrarily decided balls a cones are irrelevant decide to ignore?

I have them and have only once used them (at anchor). I may change from sailing to motoring to motor sailing several times in a short passage; mucking around putting shapes in the fore-triangle to suit would take too long and require an otherwise unecessary trip to the fore-deck. Frankly, I regard them as an outdated anachronism.

Is Power giving way to sail an outdated anachronism?

That small change of course will take too long and require an otherwise unecessary detour and the sailing boat will take avoiding action when he spots that we are going to pass very close.

Come on guys - you really can't pick and choose and it really doesn't take much effort.

 

[dylanwinter]

excellent point

So which other rules will those that have arbitrarily decided balls a cones are irrelevant decide to ignore?



Is Power giving way to sail an outdated anachronism?

That small change of course will take too long and require an otherwise unecessary detour and the sailing boat will take avoiding action when he spots that we are going to pass very close.

Come on guys - you really can't pick and choose and it really doesn't take much effort.

you correctly identify the inherent hypocrasy in the slack approach to rules of the sea



however in all walks of life some people have a tendency to pick and choose which ones to obey


and if rules are not enforced or particularly useful then they will fall into disuse


obeying the speeding limit on the road is a rule and you should nevwer break the speed limit

but most people I know sometimes break the speed limit

some people I know will drop a passenger off near a double yellow line

bad but common practice

when I am creek crawling up the Humber to raise a cone every time I start my engine without dropping my sails would be a bit of a nonsense

the necessity of disdplaying a cone is so widely ignored that the the rule is withering on the vine

a bit like the dog license - people eventuallys topped buying them - so the govt gave up on them

 

[pugwash94]

I quote from a Chirp report following an incident:

In dealing with reports of close encounters between
leisure craft and commercial vessels, we encourage
those on the bridge of a ship to envisage the situation
as it would have appeared from the cockpit of the boat,
and vice versa. We make the following general
observations about his report:
1) A vessel angling is not, in terms of the ColRegs, a
vessel engaged in fishing. An angling vessel at
anchor may be reliant on her anchor ball being
identifiable as such by approaching vessels. We
would estimate that this might be at a distance of
about 2 miles or less. A vessel travelling at, say 12
knots will travel this distance in 10 minutes, so there
is not a lot of time for an approaching vessel to
assess the situation and to take avoiding action.
2) Until the boat is identified as being at anchor, it is
possible that the bridge watch-keepers on an
approaching vessel may assume incorrectly that it is
underway. The movements of small craft may, from
the perspective of a watch-keeping officer, seem
unpredictable.

 

[onesea]

when I am creek crawling up the Humber to raise a cone every time I start my engine without dropping my sails would be a bit of a nonsense

Dillon as the pedantic's out there pointed out to me, it so much worse than that you should only raise it when you are in gear with sails up!

If your in neutral you are sailing so should take it down .

You know its says that in the rules so you must follow them