Rant Alert

I just spent 5 days on a friends new (to him) twister 28. Beautiful to look at, beautifully functional and cosy inside. Sailed great, a joy to handle.
It's from the 60's, and it sold at a bargain price of 10k. Including stuff like life raft, windvane steering,autopilot, tender, charcoal solid fuel stove, and even all the charts and pilots for west coast of Scotland.
I was also at the boat show in London in Jan and looked at bavs, dehlers etc. and thought they were vastly overpriced, poorly thought out and substandardly fitted out, for what I would want! I'm an out and out cruiser, I want a seaworthy boat to take me to interesting places, and to be able to travel in poor weather, in relative comfort.
Nothing would persuade me to buy one of them when there are boats like the twister and others around, period.
 
steve yates said:
I just spent 5 days on a friends new (to him) twister 28. Beautiful to look at, beautifully functional and cosy inside. Sailed great, a joy to handle.
It's from the 60's, and it sold at a bargain price of 10k. Including stuff like life raft, windvane steering,autopilot, tender, charcoal solid fuel stove, and even all the charts and pilots for west coast of Scotland.
I was also at the boat show in London in Jan and looked at bavs, dehlers etc. and thought they were vastly overpriced, poorly thought out and substandardly fitted out, for what I would want! I'm an out and out cruiser, I want a seaworthy boat to take me to interesting places, and to be able to travel in poor weather, in relative comfort.
Nothing would persuade me to buy one of them when there are boats like the twister and others around, period.
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Sounds very nice. Doesn't compare with my Fireball for the sailing experience though :)
 
RupertW said:
A genuine question - do you like anything designed in the last 50 years in any field?
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Serious answer to an interesting question. On the whole my tastes are fairly traditional, but just being old isn't enough. For example, heavy Victoriana doesn't do it for me. My favourite railway stations are Euston and Stafford, both of which are lovely, airy examples of 60s modernism. I love St Catherine's college in Oxford.

The Citroën DS is difficult to categorise. Although it was originally designed in 1955 (I have the 1967 version) it looks like nothing else designed then or since, so I'd categorise it as timeless.
 
pvb said:
I live in a 400 year old Grade 2 listed house, and I'm very happy with the design of my 4 year old Bavaria!
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I lived in a 16Th century house with a conservation order. I would happily have bulldozed it & built a decent new one. In the end they let me build a new one alongside it & i won an European Heritage award for the new house.
still think the old one should get the bulldozer treatment though!!!.
I tend to feel the same about some old yachts that are past their sell by dates
 
Seems to me that things, including boats, are designed in accordance with the fashion of the time and for the uses of the time, give or take RORC rules, 'cos people like their boats to look racy.

In the '70s, I'd venture to suggest that people who were prepared to invest serious money in a boat did it with a view to long distance sailing, nights at sea or at anchor. This meant the ability to cope with bad weather and navigate with chart and sextant, so proper sea berths and a decent nav station. A heavier displacement gave an easier motion so a better chance of a decent night's kip. A wide cockpit was seen as an opportunity to take a serious tumble, likewise open spaces below.

Now, with obvious exceptions, people with expensive new boats sail them from marina to marina and want comfort in the marina. A light displacement means a quicker boat, so you're more likely to arrive in time for a shower before dinner. Better forecasts mean you're less likely to get caught out and have to deal with bad weather and more space below and a huge cockpit mean you don't bump into your guests and spill the G&T.

I have friends with a Rival 34 and a Dufour 385. I know which boat I'd rather be in bashing back from Cherbourg in a gale, and which I'd rather be in entertaining guests in a marina. I sail a Snapdragon 24 which will be 50 in a couple of years, a choice driven by poverty, though she does us nicely. Small boats have their charm and are easier to manage in many ways, but she wouldn't be my choice for either activity.
 
Stemar said:
Seems to me that things, including boats, are designed in accordance with the fashion of the time and for the uses of the time, give or take RORC rules, 'cos people like their boats to look racy.

In the '70s, I'd venture to suggest that people who were prepared to invest serious money in a boat did it with a view to long distance sailing, nights at sea or at anchor. This meant the ability to cope with bad weather and navigate with chart and sextant, so proper sea berths and a decent nav station. A heavier displacement gave an easier motion so a better chance of a decent night's kip. A wide cockpit was seen as an opportunity to take a serious tumble, likewise open spaces below.

Now, with obvious exceptions, people with expensive new boats sail them from marina to marina and want comfort in the marina. A light displacement means a quicker boat, so you're more likely to arrive in time for a shower before dinner. Better forecasts mean you're less likely to get caught out and have to deal with bad weather and more space below and a huge cockpit mean you don't bump into your guests and spill the G&T.

I have friends with a Rival 34 and a Dufour 385. I know which boat I'd rather be in bashing back from Cherbourg in a gale, and which I'd rather be in entertaining guests in a marina. I sail a Snapdragon 24 which will be 50 in a couple of years, a choice driven by poverty, though she does us nicely. Small boats have their charm and are easier to manage in many ways, but she wouldn't be my choice for either activity.
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As you point out with weather information being so much better, the chances of encountering a gale by accident when going from Cherbourg to UK are somewhat reduced. Plus the number of marina berths are somewhat more widely available than when the Rival was built
That being said & would still prefer my Hanse to the Rival any day of the week, gale or no gale.
 
wully1 said:
I’ve just looked at some adverts for new 40 odd foot cruising boats...not going to name names.

Hideous, angular, awkward and unsightly wedges... with some Ikea furniture thrown in. Literally looks like it’s been thrown in.

Has building curves into a boat got too expensive or what?

Never seen a square edged dolphin or bird...
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Poor ranting IMHO. Lack of real anger, very thin on substance, and ultimately a valid point anyway. Real ranting has to go on a LOT more than that and perhaps get a bit personal too! You know what I mean.? Well DO YOU? Probably not. See? Sadly I expect you don't see at all, which is a great shame, especially for those of expecting to read a good ole banging on and DEFINITELY naming names at the very least and USUALLY some capitals to make it a bit SHOUTY here there for crissakes. The personal stuff is VERY important in a rant, such as (say) slagging off a broker cos they didn't offer coffee, or cos they were insistent on coffee, or because they offered coffee and you wanted tea, that sort of thing. Merely moaning about modern stuff not being like old stuff, wooh, big deal. Or, okay, WHICH angularish boats are not curvy enough for you? There's loads of curvy boats being made, even boats made exactly like old boats, just new. And another thing - using the word "literally" is iffy in a so-called rant when clearly new boat interior woodwork just can't be actually/truly/ literally "thrown" into the boat except in quite small pieces, can it? No, it can't. So your rant can't possibly be taken any further such as writing stroppy letters or threatening court action cos the boat manufacturer or designer whatever would be able to dismiss the whole issue due to your factually wrong stuff. A rant has surely gotta be due to be a bit more that you reading some brochures of boats you don't like, hasn't it? Course it has. You should have already gone round the boat shows and been offended a few times, or (better) your wife offended, then you asked a boat designer or two and THEY also infuriatingly suggesting flat tables and beds instead of gently undulating tables or hammocks like in the the good old days and so on, eventually finding a manky auld boat BUT the floor is flat instead of following the graceful external lines and so on and THEN you could do some justifiable ranting. But you didn't. AND ... your modern-day so-called rant is but five sentences! That's barely a "grump", more like just a whine or a whinge. Definitely not a proper "rant" anyway. Also the spacing out the sentences as you did - that's not a ranty either - rants come out BOOM in a single paragraph like this so people can FEEL your anger through the text and visualise you hammering at the almost-smoking keyboard before pressing the "post" button and chucking the computer or whatever modern phone thing overboard. Rants oughta ALSO include some expletives whislt staying just within the rules, such as jeez, sheesh, tsk, pah and other stuff as here. BUT NOT "Words fail me" which is plain daft, when obviously the words are the means of effecting the rant. How could words be failing if it's a written rant for crying out loud? They can't. Which reminds me about having plenty of rhetorical questions within the rant which you proceed to answer as part of the ranting text, also like here but again NOT in your quarter-baked rant barely worth the name, which should eventually just disappear into a rage and I don't know why I bother, I really don't. ..

Hope this helps.
 
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Beelzebub said:
Sounds very nice. Doesn't compare with my Fireball for the sailing experience though :)
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Have you actually sailed one?
When I was 21 I went from a Hornet to a Stella (precursor to the Twister) & racing in a fleet of 25 Stellas was a darned sight harder & a lot more exciting than the hornet ever was. (I have had 2 hornets & 2 Stellas)
I can assure you that racing a Twister in a blow with a kite up in an EAORA event can be a lot more exciting & much harder than 45 minutes in a fireball round a few pump up buoys
Oh & I have done the sailboard bit & still have a Phantom so I have not forgotten hanging over the transom on the 5 minute plane- But it will never beat blasting back from Ostend in F7 with the kite up
 
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t21 said:
Poor ranting IMHO. Lack of real anger, very thin on substance, and ultimately a valid point anyway. Real ranting has to go on a LOT more than that and perhaps get a bit personal too! You know what I mean.? Well DO YOU? Probably not. .... Hope this helps.
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You may be new to this forum but somehow I sense you aren't new to forums ... Actually though the original post was a troll rather than a rant, intended to provoke respondents into defending their own boat preferences and, with luck, generating a flame-war.

Anyway, welcome, and keep it up! :)
 
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t21 said:
BUT NOT "Words fail me" which is plain daft, when obviously the words are the means of effecting the rant. How could words be failing if it's a written rant for crying out loud?.
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Good effort, but I never mentioned words failing me....they sometimes do but this time I just couldn’t be arsed.

But thanks for the suggestion and you’re correct, I really must try harder.
 
jwilson said:
Curves cost money and waste wood/plywood etc. As more and more builders did it over the last few years it starts to look "new style" and hence fashionable. Curves are though more rib-friendly.

The same happened to tumblehome on hulls 30-40 years ago: expensive to build as you had to mould two half-hulls and stick them together. Some of the nicest handling and prettiest boats I've ever sailed had tumblehome.
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As a Sadler 25 owner, I agree! :)
 
t21 said:
Poor ranting IMHO. Lack of real anger, very thin on substance, and ultimately a valid point anyway. Real ranting has to go on a LOT more than that and perhaps get a bit personal too! You know what I mean.? Well DO YOU? Probably not. See? Sadly I expect you don't see at all, which is a great shame, especially for those of expecting to read a good ole banging on and DEFINITELY naming names at the very least and USUALLY some capitals to make it a bit SHOUTY here there for crissakes. The personal stuff is VERY important in a rant, such as (say) slagging off a broker cos they didn't offer coffee, or cos they were insistent on coffee, or because they offered coffee and you wanted tea, that sort of thing. Merely moaning about modern stuff not being like old stuff, wooh, big deal. Or, okay, WHICH angularish boats are not curvy enough for you? There's loads of curvy boats being made, even boats made exactly like old boats, just new. And another thing - using the word "literally" is iffy in a so-called rant when clearly new boat interior woodwork just can't be actually/truly/ literally "thrown" into the boat except in quite small pieces, can it? No, it can't. So your rant can't possibly be taken any further such as writing stroppy letters or threatening court action cos the boat manufacturer or designer whatever would be able to dismiss the whole issue due to your factually wrong stuff. A rant has surely gotta be due to be a bit more that you reading some brochures of boats you don't like, hasn't it? Course it has. You should have already gone round the boat shows and been offended a few times, or (better) your wife offended, then you asked a boat designer or two and THEY also infuriatingly suggesting flat tables and beds instead of gently undulating tables or hammocks like in the the good old days and so on, eventually finding a manky auld boat BUT the floor is flat instead of following the graceful external lines and so on and THEN you could do some justifiable ranting. But you didn't. AND ... your modern-day so-called rant is but five sentences! That's barely a "grump", more like just a whine or a whinge. Definitely not a proper "rant" anyway. Also the spacing out the sentences as you did - that's not a ranty either - rants come out BOOM in a single paragraph like this so people can FEEL your anger through the text and visualise you hammering at the almost-smoking keyboard before pressing the "post" button and chucking the computer or whatever modern phone thing overboard. Rants oughta ALSO include some expletives whislt staying just within the rules, such as jeez, sheesh, tsk, pah and other stuff as here. BUT NOT "Words fail me" which is plain daft, when obviously the words are the means of effecting the rant. How could words be failing if it's a written rant for crying out loud? They can't. Which reminds me about having plenty of rhetorical questions within the rant which you proceed to answer as part of the ranting text, also like here but again NOT in your quarter-baked rant barely worth the name, which should eventually just disappear into a rage and I don't know why I bother, I really don't. ..

Hope this helps.
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Yippee. tcm is back. You were sorely missed. t21 I decode as TBA. cannot get "21" to line up with "cm". Hope you don't let the moderator get you down again. Some moderate from the pulpit rather than the pushpit. Like a congregation not a Forum.
 
Daydream believer said:
Why? or can you not think of any!!
let's have the names if you want a proper discussion
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It wasn’t an invitation for a discussion, it’s a rant.

Im not interested in anyone else’s erroneous opinions and may only deign to consider those sensible, enlightened opinions that align with my obviously correct and proper ones.

Whatcha think this is? A forum for discussion or something?
 
wully1 said:
Good effort, but I never mentioned words failing me....they sometimes do but this time I just couldn’t be arsed.

But thanks for the suggestion and you’re correct, I really must try harder.
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No problem. I don't think I accused you of saying "words fail me" as I invoked and held the subjunctive in the preceding sentence - could/should/would the mood of untaken opportunity. Apologies for the ambiguity.
 
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