Ramsgate to Blackwater, new boat, help please.

[NUTMEG]

My son is on the cusp of buying a Westerly Cirrus 22' boat currently moored in Ramsgate. To avoid a months berthing fees he plans to sail it home Friday/Saturday.

Winds are looking good SW F3/4

He has day skipper and a fair amount of experience crewing for me etc.

Trouble is the boat is an unknown quantity, old but seemingly good Volvo Penta reasonable sails, hank on foresail. No depth gauge or VHF. Non working nav lights.

I am lending him my inflatable tender and Honda 2hp (there is an OB bracket on the Cirrus. Plus my H/H VHF, flare pack, iPad mini with Navionics, charts, east coast pilot and crossing the thames estuary books etc. He has a good LJ and foulies.

I can not accompany him due to other commitments.

Is he being reckless to undertake a 17 hour journey singlehanded (first time) on an unknown boat? Will I get any sleep worrying?

All comments and advise welcome.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Is there an autohelm of any description?If not I would suggest one extra hand would be a better bet.

 

[Bru]

No nav lights, no VHF, an outboard bracket on a boat with an inboard diesel

And bearing in mind that on that passage you get around twelve plus miles offshore and definitely out of mobile range I think it's a recipe for trouble

At the very least I'd want to test the engine on a shorter trip or two, get the nav lights working just in case (or buy a set of battery lights) and beg, steal or borrow a hand held VHF

Oh and a lack of a depth sounder is a pretty major issue in the Thames estuary too. I'd be a nervous wreck relying on navigation alone to keep clear of all the shallow bits!

 

[albineer]

No nav lights, no VHF, an outboard bracket on a boat with an inboard diesel

And bearing in mind that on that passage you get around twelve plus miles offshore and definitely out of mobile range I think it's a recipe for trouble

At the very least I'd want to test the engine on a shorter trip or two, get the nav lights working just in case (or buy a set of battery lights) and beg, steal or borrow a hand held VHF

Oh and a lack of a depth sounder is a pretty major issue in the Thames estuary too. I'd be a nervous wreck relying on navigation alone to keep clear of all the shallow bits!

I wholeheartedly support your statement about a depth sounder or at least take a lead line. I knew somebody who lost his boat for just that reason. Like you I'd test the engine too.

By the way, the OP says they've got a hand held VHF.

 

[Davegriff]

Better with an extra crew member - 17 hours, hopefully, is a long stint first time single-handed, especially if anything doesn't go to plan. I wouldn't worry too much about the OB bracket with an old engine. My old VP is 34 years old and very reliable, but we accept is old so we keep the dinghy 2hp as back-up on a bracket "just in case" and "because we can". Think I'd get some sort of nav lights though. Simple self-contained battery types easily available (we carry them for emergencies anyway).

A shake-down sail with any new, but older, boat would of course be advisable...

 

[Bru]

Oops, well spotted Albineer, I missed the h/h VHF in the OP

Another thought is that a single all round white light would meet the legal requirement as she's under 7m and doesn't require full nav lights

A good LED lantern would do in an emergency although I'd take along as bright a torch add I could get my hands on too

 

[nigelm]

For the sake of £150 I'd be inclined to pick up a dedicated hand held GPS aswell , input some waypoints before he even sets foot on the boat ..

 

[Lightairs]

Think the forecast is 4/5 currently...

 

[ex-Gladys]

As others here have said, don't rush iit for the sake of £150 (which is likely to be less), also forecast is for gusts to top of 6 Saturday and heavy rain. You need at least a sensible trip to check out the real state of the boat... There's an MAIB report that was circulated by the RYA for its "lessons learned"...

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Pastime_Synopsis.pdf

 

[tillergirl]

17 hours is a bit pessistic to cross the Estuary. Even at an average of 3 knots it should max out at 13.5/14. I think there needs to be either a reliable GPS or a depth-o-meter. I know our forebears didn't have either but they were used to using a lead line. In good vis, might it be an idea to do Ramsgate to the Swale on Friday and then Swale to Blackwater via the Swin on Saturday? The drawback of that is he might need the motor whereas with the SW'erlies at the moment, he has a good chance of sailing all the way from Ramsgate via Fisherman's, across the SW Sunk, up the east side of the Barrow Sands and then turning for the Spitway. The GPS will be necessary to find the SW Sunk swatchway and helps finding the turning point around that finger of the NE Barrow sands. I know if he arrived at the SW Sunk at low water, he could see the knoll and keep to the east of it but that is a bit bravura for a first sail! There is definitely no EE signal at the SW Sunk by the way.

How long since she was sailed. We have tended to concentrate on electrickery bits but if it came on to blow a bit stronger, will the halliards and sheets take it, will he be able to reef (effectively). Err does she have a bilge pump? And no mention of charts - I have some I can lend but time is short.

 

[NUTMEG]

Why are youngsters always in a rush?

Thanks all, I am not happy with him doing it SH, if he would wait a week I could crew for him. Tillergirl, he has decided to overnight at Harty Ferry. So north Kent Coast to 'sea trial'!

No idea when last sailed but Jamie says rigging and sails are good

Kids!

Steve

 

[Gargleblaster]

Tillergirl, he has decided to overnight at Harty Ferry. So north Kent Coast to 'sea trial'!

Steve

There is a nice little anchorage just of Herne Bay shown on the detailed charts which would save the problem of bashing into the Swale against a SW wind. Also saves distance overall. Through the Copperarse Channel past the Wind Farm and then over to the Blacktail Spit and up the Middle Deep to the Swin. I'd be studying my tidal stream information for the passage.

 

[Mandarin331]

Tillergirl, he has decided to overnight at Harty Ferry. So north Kent Coast to 'sea trial'!

Makes a lot of sense, then he can sort out any problems at Harty, my list of things to take would include a lead line & powerful torch (as mentioned above), a thermos flask or two for pre-prepared hot soup plus some ready to eat snacks, spare cordage and a very complete set of tools to fix anything en route. Reminds me of my first trip in my first boat from Paglesham to Walton in one hit, single handed, no echo sounder or electronics of any sort, old cotton sails and a 4hp Stuart Turner towing my fathers Avon.

Of course you will worry, but I suspect we've all done similar things at some stage.

 

[NUTMEG]

Funny getting older isn't it. I am sure he will be fine. Deep down I wish it were me in my first boat, old and untested, no fancy gizmos, single handed, in short, about to have an adventure!

I will mention Hern Bay, thanks.

Popping down to Rose today to collect charts and dinghy etc for him.

Anyone know where we could buy a depth sounder today? Maldon, Essex area? Not,sure if Marinestore keep them in stock.

 

[tillergirl]

Pretty sure that Marinestore will have one in stock at one of their branches but might not be Maldon. There is always Mansbrite in Maldon although they tend to be the more expensive sort of thing.

Pleased he is doing the Swale way. Note the revision of the buoyage for the Copperas Channel rather than the East Last if the chart is not too recent. There is a chartlet on the website which may help.

 

[albineer]

Better to be in a rush to do something active than sitting at a screen all day and night like some, IMO. I hope you can persuade him to wait the week so you can go with him.

 

[jerrytug]

Re echosounders, if he can't fit one in the hull:
you can buy one and tie the sender unit on a stick, and fix it over the side, it works really well, I have done it. It was a cheap one from the chandlers in Maldon on the steep hill.
That's the only thing he really needs that is missing, although a plan, in advance, for engine failure at any stage would be a good idea, have a nice trip!

 

[Pye_End]

I will mention Herne Bay, thanks.

If she has a fin keel and he wants to stay afloat at low water there is a bit of a hole that will allow him to do so which is reasonably quiet in southerly winds. I can give a lat and long if this is of interest. Otherwise off the sailing club is not a bad place as you can get nearer to the shore than in the bay itself. Bottom is hard sand - Danforth type or new gen work best.

If at all bumpy, Swale makes good use of tides and is more protected. A little detour, but well justified for this trip.

 

[NUTMEG]

Agreed. I think a night at anchor to 'draw breath' would be sensible under the circumstances. Will let you know how things turn out unless it appears on the RNLI website first!

 

[Bru]

Better to be in a rush to do something active than sitting at a screen all day and night like some, IMO. I hope you can persuade him to wait the week so you can go with him.

I'll have you know I wasn't sitting at the screen all night! I was standing and earning sailing tokens

(Road works have left us with hardly any customers at night and there's only so much cleaning, tidying, reorganising of freezers, etc. that I can up with put before terminal boredom sets in!)