D
Deleted member 36384
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Yes, if boat won't track, otherwise it's not the right tool from the box.
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raising, reefing, dousing without engine
- Thread starter ghostlymoron
- Start date
Yes, if boat won't track, otherwise it's not the right tool from the box.
William_H
Well-Known Member
I reef fairly often on my little TS. This is always done with crew however it will sail close to the wind on jib alone (hank on) sufficient to allow the main to be reefed or reef shaken out. This despite using a bolt rope in the mast. Indeed it is for reefing that I prefer bolt rope in mast.
I mostly do club races and reefing usually is called for on the wind ward leg so by sailing close on jib we do not lose much distance while reefing. Reefing is set up so all ropes (2 line reefing) go back to the cockpit. olewill
I mostly do club races and reefing usually is called for on the wind ward leg so by sailing close on jib we do not lose much distance while reefing. Reefing is set up so all ropes (2 line reefing) go back to the cockpit. olewill
tolhurstorganic
Well-Known Member
Yes I heave too especially if single handed, if you are not in a race why risk getting thrown around whilst struggling to reef? I can hove to in less than a minute, starboard tack preferably so all sail have to give way to me. It,s then easy, comfortable and safe to reef down.
Naida has a mizzen which does not drive the boat much on anything other than a reach but is very handy for keeping her up to wind for sail raising and other jobs which can be challenging if single handed.
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
Are my lazyjacks/backpack likely to make reefing more awkward? I've had problems before with battens sagging on the lines.
onesea
Well-Known Member
I think the other thing the OP has to remember before engines people did not normally take there sails down in open waters. Possibly with the exception of going to anchor?
My thinking is once the sails where uo and drawing it would be the time they could rest (well as much as they could). Getting to open waters will of been hard work, warping boats, rowing them, punting them, waiting on tides etc.
Then that flexibility is no longer required with modern engines etc I wonder how many of the Original Pilot Cutter type Captains would look at a modern boat and think "if I had a rig like that in my day I would of got every ship coming up the channel?" As he would be quicker and closer winded than the other cutters?
As for raising reefing dowsing without engine, yes I do all of the above, once the first sail is up the engine is stopped, I generally do not think about using the engine again until the end of the sail.
My thinking is once the sails where uo and drawing it would be the time they could rest (well as much as they could). Getting to open waters will of been hard work, warping boats, rowing them, punting them, waiting on tides etc.
Having to steer any particular course in order to handle the sail still feels like a backwards step from my flexible convenient gaff rig though
Pete
Then that flexibility is no longer required with modern engines etc I wonder how many of the Original Pilot Cutter type Captains would look at a modern boat and think "if I had a rig like that in my day I would of got every ship coming up the channel?" As he would be quicker and closer winded than the other cutters?
As for raising reefing dowsing without engine, yes I do all of the above, once the first sail is up the engine is stopped, I generally do not think about using the engine again until the end of the sail.
prv
Well-Known Member
Well, true, it's not required. But it was fun being able to routinely sail in situations which I would now regard as emergency backup only due to the unhandiness of the rig.
Oh, absolutely, and that's largely why we bought the new boat. I want to go further afield and that means something faster and more close-winded, and we're very happy with the new boat. But making a good trade-off doesn't mean I'm not allowed to acknowledge the negative side of the balance.
Pete
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
Having read a lot of Patrick O'Brian I got the impression that Jack Aubrey frequently changed his sails while underway.
Having tried dousing and reefing with the wind behind us, I'm convinced that's not the way to go. I'll try rounding up under foresail and heaving to and see which works best.
Thanks all for your contributions.
Having tried dousing and reefing with the wind behind us, I'm convinced that's not the way to go. I'll try rounding up under foresail and heaving to and see which works best.
Thanks all for your contributions.
snooks
Well-Known Member
I've never had to put the engine on to reef, ever.
I can't believe it is would ever be necessary. If you're on the wind let the main right out, all the way, not drawing at all, then release the halyard or outhaul and do what you need to do.
If you're not on the wind, go onto the wind - reducing the genoa sail area if required.
If it's not possible to reef without the engine there is something wrong with your system.
I can't believe it is would ever be necessary. If you're on the wind let the main right out, all the way, not drawing at all, then release the halyard or outhaul and do what you need to do.
If you're not on the wind, go onto the wind - reducing the genoa sail area if required.
If it's not possible to reef without the engine there is something wrong with your system.
James_Calvert
Well-Known Member
I couldn't see the problem either but was put straight by prv - see posts #4&5
But most of my experience has been in a Sadler 32
snooks
Well-Known Member
I couldn't see the problem either but was put straight by prv - see posts #4&5
But most of my experience has been in a Sadler 32
There is something wrong with PRV's system then...every yacht I've sailed with that system or any other can be reefed in whatever the weather...Think about it, it would be blooming pointless if you couldn't reef without the engine.
The only trouble I regularly encounter is friction in the reefing pennants and bad leads in overly complicated (and slightly pointless) single line reefing systems. This has nothing to do with the friction at the luff edge.
With the mainsail free, the sheet slack and the boat going to windward under jib alone there should be little to no friction in the mainsail track system at all. Only if the mainsail isn't completely de-powered or the cars are twisting and jamming would any trouble occur. Even so this should not mean you have to use the engine...it should mean you sort the problem out.
If the cars/slides/boltrope can't handle going up and down the mast at around 30º-40º from the centreline of the yachts there is a problem with the system.
I've sailed a Sadler 32 once or twice, great boats
temptress
Well-Known Member
We have a 47ft sailing yacht, fully battened main on a car system with lazyjacks . We can reef on any point of sail, even downwind, without the engine. I have race and delivered all sorts of boats all over the world and the only time I ever came across a sailboat that had trouble reefing while under sail only I discovered the inmast furling was not setup correctly.
I remember Mr Cunliffe writing about this in Your last year. Try and find the article and read it. Alternatively try crewing on an offshore race or two, you may well discover a whole new way to handle things is a blow.
I remember Mr Cunliffe writing about this in Your last year. Try and find the article and read it. Alternatively try crewing on an offshore race or two, you may well discover a whole new way to handle things is a blow.
_floater_
New Member
When I have to reef or drop the main in a blow, I most usually heave-to and once set let the mainsheet go and do what needs to be done. I never use a stinky engine. Hoist at the mooring and pick up the line with luffing sails.
Motors. lol
Motors. lol
webcraft
Well-Known Member
.
I once had a Day Skipper candidate who was stroppy and recalcitrant - he was only doing the course because some idiot charter company in Greece insisted he had the bit of paper.
Tacking up the Kyles of Bute into a rising wind on day 2 of the course I informed my crew that we were going to have to put in a reef, and asked how we should do it. ''Furl the genoa, put the engine on and go head to wind' announces Captain Knowitall. When I said no, we were a sailing vessel and would be doing it under sail I was met with a sceptical look. Once I demonstrated the procedure the stroppy one spent the rest of the course hanging on my every word and treating me as a wise old sage of the sea.
The one situation I have learned to avoid is going downwind under main only in a rising wind and sea and leaving the decision to reef until it becomes far too obvious . . .
- W
I once had a Day Skipper candidate who was stroppy and recalcitrant - he was only doing the course because some idiot charter company in Greece insisted he had the bit of paper.
Tacking up the Kyles of Bute into a rising wind on day 2 of the course I informed my crew that we were going to have to put in a reef, and asked how we should do it. ''Furl the genoa, put the engine on and go head to wind' announces Captain Knowitall. When I said no, we were a sailing vessel and would be doing it under sail I was met with a sceptical look. Once I demonstrated the procedure the stroppy one spent the rest of the course hanging on my every word and treating me as a wise old sage of the sea.
The one situation I have learned to avoid is going downwind under main only in a rising wind and sea and leaving the decision to reef until it becomes far too obvious . . .
- W
Kukri
Well-Known Member
Very sound. Wish I could claim a minute. I do lock the boom amidships with the traveller off to one side and sheeted hard and a handy billy with snap shackles the other way, but a rigid gallows is on the Christmas list. At some point in the process the offspring will helpfully remind us all that the area of this mainsail is less than that of the gaff rigged "ex". It never feels that way...
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
In the four years since this thread first appeared and I wrote that, I am older, fatter, fitness has decreased further and my arms and legs have got shorter. This week I struggled to stretch, balance, coordinate to get my sail ties on. The flakes fell out more than once and I almost dropped the boom lowering it by the topping topping lift. A boom crutch would be a good idea.
geem
Well-Known Member
We never use the engine to adjust sails unless it's at the end of a sailing trip when we may start the engine before entering harbour whyby we would go head to wind to drop the mainsail. Otherwise, we let the main sheet out to allow the wind to spill from the main and either reef or take out a reef that way. We have a fully battened main with lazy jacks and cars on every sail connection to the mast. Boat is 44 ft with a 56ft mast, 400 sqft sail. Even down wind when we need to put a reef in we don't alter course, we simply drag the sail down again the aft lowers and lazy jacks. I can honestly say I have never turned into the wind and used the engine when reefing or taking the reef out in my life
Kukri
Well-Known Member
The new to me boat came with two very handy bits of heavy tape. One keeps the reef pendants in their right places and the other is a “spider” with a spine that clips under the boom and has all the sail tyers spaced out along it like ribs. I’d like to buy whoever thought of that a beer.
Babylon
Well-Known Member
Given that almost every occasion I need to raise or lower the mainsail is when leaving or returning to a harbour, a river, etc, the engine will be on for berthing or mooring - so the easiest and safest method is to just use it to hold the boat into or (better) close to the wind. Sailing onto or off anchor is another story and fun to do. Reefing is easily do-able whilst sailing and also hove-to. Potential lazy-jack snags and track/car jams can complicate things slightly, but never present a real problem.
But no need to be sniffy about using an engine if you feel like it.
But no need to be sniffy about using an engine if you feel like it.
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JimC
Well-Known Member
