pteron
Well-Known Member
But dinghies often don't carry anything to measure speed.
Raggie rage. Was I in the wrong?
- Thread starter ricky_s
- Start date
ricky_s
Well-Known Member
My first mobo didn't have any way to measure speed when I first got her but don't think that excuse would have been acceptable.
T
timbartlett
Guest
Can you explain, please?
There's no point having an out of date version on my website.
I know of a correction that was issued to put right a minor typo in one of the Annexes, but if it's any substantive change to the rules, I need to put it right.
PM me if you prefer: I'm trying to make sure the reference on my website is up to date -- not start an argument!
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scottie
Well-Known Member
running on one engine
If you are running for long periods on one engine you may have to shut the seacock on the stopped engine to prevent water being forced through to exhaust and backfilling the engine
If you are running for long periods on one engine you may have to shut the seacock on the stopped engine to prevent water being forced through to exhaust and backfilling the engine
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
Can't see that happening, water is more likely to be sucked OUT of the exhaust.
pteron
Well-Known Member
Have PM'd but for others:
http://www.imo.org/conventions/contents.asp?doc_id=649&topic_id=257
The distress signals changed in 2007.
pteron
Well-Known Member
Sure.
But limiting a 3 sail racing dinghy to 8 knots would effectively curtail racing. So what you are saying is that racing modern dinghies should be banned.
Steve Clayton
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to read the 11 pages of this thread but Chi harbour seems to have an 8knt speed limit; so exceed this and regardless of sail over power, stand-on or give-way; you are in the wrong
ShaunG
Well-Known Member
Right ho, here i go as a raggie
When i first moved to chichester harbour (4 years ago) i found the experience of entering and exiting the harbor terrifiying to say the least. I found the dinghies etc flying towards me uncomprehensible and very scary (especially the fast ones). Over time and i have learnt to begin to understand where they are going and what they are doing.
I now have a fair amount of trust in some of the faster sportier dinghes and most of their helms who when not racing use us as a moving mark, i have learnt to trust these helms and am still happy when they have been within 4ft of us
However there are 2 areas in Chi that i think need looking at , the moorings in Itchenor, there are quite a large number of 'kids' in dinghies here who i have far less faith in, they appear to be fairly nervous and unsure of what they are doing, i have seen the club near to there, training in the channel, this increases risk without warrant, there are plenty of places to go other than the channel in this area.
I have even seen dinghies racing across the front of the lock at chi marina when there is the usual large summer queue, this is just a risk that is not needed
Eastoke, this can be busy at weekends and dinghy sailors around here have caused a number of issues that i have seen (pushing a mobo over the bank, a mobo having to go very hard astern, a mobo having to carry out a very emergency 360, it would also have affected us if we were not sailing on starboard to the dinghies port tack), maybe from the winner around to eastoke there should be a 'tss' syle zone, again this would reduce risk and improve understanding.
I can fully understand the comments so far, just don't get me started on the x's and swallows, when racing across the channel i am sick of hearing 'we are sailing' well guess what you stuck up tit, so am i and i am on starboard tack. In my mind the sailors of the aformentioned vessels (x and swallow) and the race officers who set the courses do need a kick up the backside.
Maybe a look at some of the racing marks and courses is now in order, the harbour is busier than ever and there is a large and varied variety of users, those who stay in the harbour and those that use the harbour mainly as a means to access the solent.
For most of the route between chichester marina and and the bar the navigable channel is to the east of the harbour. This leaves a large amount of water to the west to play in, maybe where possible, clubs that are racing should use as many marks to the west, if this involves moving marks then so be it, harbour dues should help pay for this.
This subject has come up a number of the times on the forum now (always chichester) and in conversation with other users of the harbour. Maybe it is time as much as possible is done to reduce the risks and allow every to enjoy their boats without almost having a heart attack when entering/exiting.
Whilst we all have to use the harbour and the numbers are increasing the harbour authority do need to try and make all users lives a bit easier.
If we take this from a financial standpoint, the larger vessels pay a substantial amount of the revenue in harbour dues but seem to have no input, is there a committee where these concerns could be raised?
In light of the above i have had no issues in the last 2 years, i have put this down to my growing confidence in certain types of boats (the fast ones with trapeezes and asymetric's) and a growing understanding of where they are going.
Maybe a chart showing all racing marks, what clubs use them could be issued by the harbour authority, maybe then all users, and not just raggies would have a better understanding of were the dinghies are going
When i first moved to chichester harbour (4 years ago) i found the experience of entering and exiting the harbor terrifiying to say the least. I found the dinghies etc flying towards me uncomprehensible and very scary (especially the fast ones). Over time and i have learnt to begin to understand where they are going and what they are doing.
I now have a fair amount of trust in some of the faster sportier dinghes and most of their helms who when not racing use us as a moving mark, i have learnt to trust these helms and am still happy when they have been within 4ft of us
However there are 2 areas in Chi that i think need looking at , the moorings in Itchenor, there are quite a large number of 'kids' in dinghies here who i have far less faith in, they appear to be fairly nervous and unsure of what they are doing, i have seen the club near to there, training in the channel, this increases risk without warrant, there are plenty of places to go other than the channel in this area.
I have even seen dinghies racing across the front of the lock at chi marina when there is the usual large summer queue, this is just a risk that is not needed
Eastoke, this can be busy at weekends and dinghy sailors around here have caused a number of issues that i have seen (pushing a mobo over the bank, a mobo having to go very hard astern, a mobo having to carry out a very emergency 360, it would also have affected us if we were not sailing on starboard to the dinghies port tack), maybe from the winner around to eastoke there should be a 'tss' syle zone, again this would reduce risk and improve understanding.
I can fully understand the comments so far, just don't get me started on the x's and swallows, when racing across the channel i am sick of hearing 'we are sailing' well guess what you stuck up tit, so am i and i am on starboard tack. In my mind the sailors of the aformentioned vessels (x and swallow) and the race officers who set the courses do need a kick up the backside.
Maybe a look at some of the racing marks and courses is now in order, the harbour is busier than ever and there is a large and varied variety of users, those who stay in the harbour and those that use the harbour mainly as a means to access the solent.
For most of the route between chichester marina and and the bar the navigable channel is to the east of the harbour. This leaves a large amount of water to the west to play in, maybe where possible, clubs that are racing should use as many marks to the west, if this involves moving marks then so be it, harbour dues should help pay for this.
This subject has come up a number of the times on the forum now (always chichester) and in conversation with other users of the harbour. Maybe it is time as much as possible is done to reduce the risks and allow every to enjoy their boats without almost having a heart attack when entering/exiting.
Whilst we all have to use the harbour and the numbers are increasing the harbour authority do need to try and make all users lives a bit easier.
If we take this from a financial standpoint, the larger vessels pay a substantial amount of the revenue in harbour dues but seem to have no input, is there a committee where these concerns could be raised?
In light of the above i have had no issues in the last 2 years, i have put this down to my growing confidence in certain types of boats (the fast ones with trapeezes and asymetric's) and a growing understanding of where they are going.
Maybe a chart showing all racing marks, what clubs use them could be issued by the harbour authority, maybe then all users, and not just raggies would have a better understanding of were the dinghies are going
ShaunG
Well-Known Member
has any one seen if the 8 knot limit is implemented for safety or wash reduction. I suspect that this has never been clarified and that it is 50/50. If this is the case then is does seem a little unfair on mobos.
No one, especially me wants to restrict dinghies or stop them having fun, but....hi tech dinghies have moved on over the years, are a lot faster than they used to be and maybe the rules of the harbour need to be updated to take account of this.
As to how they should be updated........don't ask me, i have no idea how all parties could be kept happy
No one, especially me wants to restrict dinghies or stop them having fun, but....hi tech dinghies have moved on over the years, are a lot faster than they used to be and maybe the rules of the harbour need to be updated to take account of this.
As to how they should be updated........don't ask me, i have no idea how all parties could be kept happy
ShaunG
Well-Known Member
having just read fireballs post.....
and my personal feelings
there seems to be a reason for all of the agitation, fireball has had 30 years to understand and estimate dinghy speed and driection and what mark they are racing to.
me..as a raggie who has used the harbour a fair amount now have a basic understanding of the marks and what direction the dinghies are likely to be going in.
As mobos you may have less of an understanding what is likley to happen, maybe this is just an education thing that the conservancy could work on
any thoughts.
BTW when big boat racing if i am ducking a stern with more than 3ft to spare i am going wrong, this is is 30ft + yachts that will do major damage if it is got wrong, however you learn to trust the other competitors
and my personal feelings
there seems to be a reason for all of the agitation, fireball has had 30 years to understand and estimate dinghy speed and driection and what mark they are racing to.
me..as a raggie who has used the harbour a fair amount now have a basic understanding of the marks and what direction the dinghies are likely to be going in.
As mobos you may have less of an understanding what is likley to happen, maybe this is just an education thing that the conservancy could work on
any thoughts.
BTW when big boat racing if i am ducking a stern with more than 3ft to spare i am going wrong, this is is 30ft + yachts that will do major damage if it is got wrong, however you learn to trust the other competitors
pteron
Well-Known Member
Well if you had bothered to read it, you would know that the 8 knot limit applies only to motorboats!
ricky_s
Well-Known Member
I'm haven't said they should be banned.
But now you mention it. If I decide I want a bit of a race with a couple of other mobo's and do, say 15 knots, would you think that is okay because we are racing?
What about 30knots? We would be out at sea very quickly and out of the way. Would suit me!
fireball
Well-Known Member
Certain boats are not allowed to be raced in the harbour. Basically cats and cruisers. Iirc this is because the take too much room. I guess this argument could be extended to the faster dinghies too now.
fireball
Well-Known Member
Shaun - all users of the harbour are represented by federation reps. Go to www.chifed.org
I've owned and raced the faster boats so probably do have a better understanding than most. I believe the main problem is the cruising helm not looking far enough ahead. The same can be said of those in race boats who tangle with the cruisers. This does come with experience though.
The arrogance of some sailors is just infuriating sometimes, I'm lucky enough to be able to shout and sound authorative about the rules. Even if I'm not always right I can usually wangle stand on (when cruising not racing!)
I've owned and raced the faster boats so probably do have a better understanding than most. I believe the main problem is the cruising helm not looking far enough ahead. The same can be said of those in race boats who tangle with the cruisers. This does come with experience though.
The arrogance of some sailors is just infuriating sometimes, I'm lucky enough to be able to shout and sound authorative about the rules. Even if I'm not always right I can usually wangle stand on (when cruising not racing!)
fireball
Well-Known Member
The racing marks are maintained and paid for by the clubs that use them. I've spent a few wet&windy days on the club work boat lifting them to bring them back for maintenance!!
ShaunG
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that fireball, I didn't know about them, I suspect it is the same for many others.
This is not to the detriment of the federation but if they are the representatives then they are very dinghy focused on the website. I could find nothing relating to mobs and very little for cruisers.
If they are the sole representatives of the harbour stakeholders a little more balance may be a good idea.
For the moboers, if you feel you need to be represented then it maybe worth contacting the federation or your representative, this mY give you more of a voice, if the elegant organisation is not aware they can't resolve the issue.
Thanks for the link fireball, I think some forumitez may find it useful, I have already contacted them with a minor but potentially helpful point
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DAKA
Well-Known Member
why cant sailing boats with hull speeds in excess of 8knts (speed limit) be restricted to dawn to 1000 am
Is there anything in Harbour bylaws or COL REGS about safe speed for the conditions ?
20knts on a sunday afternoon in chich is not safe.
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fireball
Well-Known Member
Hmm - are we talking about traditional calc:
Hull Speed = 1.34 * (LWL)1/2
??
Cos that's easy - none of the dinghies exceed 8 knots "hull speed" .... they're all planing by then!!
my dinghy "hull speed" is just over 5 knots ...
Conservancy by-laws require "care and caution" to be taken by the users...
fireball
Well-Known Member
Depends - on which Sunday and what the weather is like ...
Last sunday when 20knots was more achievable (I was only doing 15 ish in a smaller dinghy) there were fewer boats out as it was quite windy - therefore there was more room so it was quite easy to do 15-20 knots without 'getting in the way' ...