Radio procedure when no reponse (From avoiding big ships thread)

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SimonFa

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I suspect that that avoiding big ships thread is going to run and run with lots of sidelines so I though I would break out this particular comment and start a new thread.

onesea said:
And lastly, get a good VHF radio, two perhaps, set one to 13 and one to 16 offshore, and install antennas as high as possible. Nothing is more infuriating when you are hailing a vessel and get no response, then suddenly they want to play the Rules card on you. Nope, sorry. I tried, you failed in your responsibilities, I am now following what I feel to be the best course of action. Something I've picked up from pilots is to repeat the phrase "negative contact" over the radio if I fail to get a response. The USCG records 13 and 16 (within range), and if I have to say that phrase, at that point I have given up on resolving the situation mutually and have switched to preparing for potential litigation. Don't let it get to that point.
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(my emphasis)

Being ex-Royal Signals its automatic for me to respond with "nothing heard, out" whenever I don't get a response. I think this is very important on a shared system as someone could be waiting for a conversation to end before starting their own. It also lets the person you are calling know that you didn't get the response as opposed to just failing to acknowledge.

I'm surprised something similar isn't mandatory under Colregs or other VHF licensing rules or similar. Come to think of it I don't remember this being discussed on my VHF course.
 
SimonFa said:
I suspect that that avoiding big ships thread is going to run and run with lots of sidelines so I though I would break out this particular comment and start a new thread.


(my emphasis)

Being ex-Royal Signals its automatic for me to respond with "nothing heard, out" whenever I don't get a response. I think this is very important on a shared system as someone could be waiting for a conversation to end before starting their own. It also lets the person you are calling know that you didn't get the response as opposed to just failing to acknowledge.

I'm surprised something similar isn't mandatory under Colregs or other VHF licensing rules or similar. Come to think of it I don't remember this being discussed on my VHF course.
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Following no response, I also always say, "Nothing heard, out". Like you, I don't recall it being recommended, but after hearing others doing it, thought it sensible, and followed suit.
 
NormanS said:
Following no response, I also always say, "Nothing heard, out". Like you, I don't recall it being recommended, but after hearing others doing it, thought it sensible, and followed suit.
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+ 1 - military voice procedure has much commonality with other civilian net operating procedures, it makes sense to take best practice from wherever it develops. The use of 'nothing heard - out' formally closes the call, and could advise the receiving station (who may still be able to receive) that there may be an issue. Often just a matter if trying again later when better line of sight or lesser distance.

Ack that Fisherman made same point whilst I was typing response, thanks.
 
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Good point SimonFa. Excellent point.
Although I personally would not be using VHF for collision avoidance, from a yacht, in my usual stamping grounds, the Channel and the N Sea. If you eavesdrop on the ship-to-ship chat in the Dover Strait for example, language and accent are issues (think Bangla call centre).
( Eavesdropping is sensible, and a form of look-out which must be used if available, of course. )

'Certa Cito' (from my old man not me) Jerry
 
Have edited my other post to make it clear I did not write that I was just quoting it...
For me I do not use the radio much I have no cockpit speaker or mike, DSC will be about the only way to get me on the Radio.
Unless there was a very good reason to call I would not try, on the ocastI suspect they have enough going on the bridge without a yacht calling. Or better DSCing them tuning VHF's there radios to one frequency.

I have never used nothing heard, then I will be turning the radio down more if it becomes common round the solent there is enough inane chat....
 
Have edited my other post to make it clear I did not write that I was just quoting it...
For me I do not use the radio much I have no cockpit speaker or mike, DSC will be about the only way to get me on the Radio.
Unless there was a very good reason to call I would not try, on the ocastI suspect they have enough going on the bridge without a yacht calling. Or better DSCing them tuning VHF's there radios to one frequency.

I have never used "nothing heard", then I will be turning the radio down more if it becomes common round the solent there is enough inane chat....
 
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Off the South West coast the navy often do not reply. At least twice this summer (and in previous years) on the way to from Plymouth to Falmouth we heard Navy warnings of live firing, with a message to call the warship if in the area on channel 83. We did. No answer, try again and again. Then on 16. Nothing heard. We can see the warship, the smoke, and hear the firing and we appear to be in the way..........

Each time I have resorted to telephoning the coastguard, just in case my set has a problem, though we have heard from boats in harbour that we were loud and clear! They then contact the warship on 16, who then, and only then say they will speak to me.

We have a visual on you they say, and we are stopping firing for lunch/tea/ whatever.....it does not give one any confidence in their operators. I have been so frustrated by this I spoke 2 years ago to a high ranking FOST officer (training), who apologised and said it would be followed up. It has not changed.

What should one do?
 
onesea said:
Have edited my other post to make it clear I did not write that I was just quoting it...
For me I do not use the radio much I have no cockpit speaker or mike, DSC will be about the only way to get me on the Radio.
Unless there was a very good reason to call I would not try, on the ocastI suspect they have enough going on the bridge without a yacht calling. Or better DSCing them tuning VHF's there radios to one frequency.

I have never used nothing heard, then I will be turning the radio down more if it becomes common round the solent there is enough inane chat....
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Each to their own! Inane chat is a separate issue, here on the West Coast of Scotland there is not a huge amount of traffic and social type chat (offer fishermen with a rich vocabulary or yachts sailing in company giving Sitreps and arranging RVs) normally takes place on working channels.

I agree that it would not be good practice to call a working ship unnecessarily.
 
I think the correct procedure is simply to wait and listen, then repeat the original call after an appropriate interval.

The other party should respond by acknowledging your call and expecting a response. Since he does not get a response, either he never heard our call or he never heard your reply, so calling 'nothing heard' serves no purpose.
Every transmission should be acknowledged, except the final one which ends in 'out'.
 
lw395 said:
I think the correct procedure is simply to wait and listen, then repeat the original call after an appropriate interval.

The other party should respond by acknowledging your call and expecting a response. Since he does not get a response, either he never heard our call or he never heard your reply, so calling 'nothing heard' serves no purpose.
Every transmission should be acknowledged, except the final one which ends in 'out'.
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Isn't this exactly the point - his 'calling' calls ended in 'over', by closing with 'nothing heard - out' he is letting everyone on the 'all-informed net' know that he has ceased his transmission and the channel is available.
 
With the large commercial ships if you DSC them they have to answer ( its logged on their system) Many questions to be answered if things go wrong and it wasnt answered.
I have had very few problems as I transmit AIS as well, 99% of the time everybody follows the rules, when they dont just a quick call to ask what there intentions are, then they change course !!
 
I've always thought "Nothing heard - out" with or without "listening channel xyz" was standard practice. Silly me. :p

EDIT: How do you contact a ship, whose name you know but MMSI you don't, by DSC? Or do ships now have their MMSI displayed in big letters?
 
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Halcytwo said:
With the large commercial ships if you DSC them they have to answer ( its logged on their system) Many questions to be answered if things go wrong and it wasnt answered.
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A quick Google didn't come up with anything but I'm pretty sure there are shipping lines which explicitly forbid any Vhf communications regarding collision avoidance after guidance from the mca regarding Vhf assisted collisions.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mgn_324.pdf-
 
lw395 said:
Since he does not get a response, either he never heard our call or he never heard your reply, so calling 'nothing heard' serves no purpose.
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Au contraire, a "nothing heard" lets the other station know that nothing was heard (if they responded) alerting them to the fact that either they are out of TX range, or they may have some other form of TX problem.

Reverting to the first post, I was amused to see that the original author uses the expression "negative contact" which would be confusing to many native English speakers, let alone those with Engerlish as a learnt language. "Nothing heard" is much less ambiguous.
 
A1Sailor said:
EDIT: How do you contact a ship, whose name you know but MMSI you don't, by DSC? Or do ships now have their MMSI displayed in big letters?
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Useful thread and a useful/correct transmission to getting no response, (but it isn't taught or at least I don'r remember it being covered) with regard to the above question I have always found calling Big (blue/red/grey) ship in position xxxx yyyy heading roughly .... has worked. You don't even need the name and some military types refused to give names.
 
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