Radial - Bi Radial - Crosscut Which

[sailor211]

I am finalsing specfication with the sailmaker for new genoa.

Boat is westerly 33 sloop, so not the fastest, however I do like to get the best out of her. I have lots of tweeky bits and play with them.

We are repalcing a Radial cut genoa from marblehead which has performed well

We have decided on dimension-polyant 310 material. The question is, will we notice any loss of performance if I go for a cross cut rather than a Radial Cut . Sail maker says not much difference.

It is a noticable saving in cost, but not enough to make up for wishing for a radial cut each time over the next 6-8- 10 years.

 

[jimi]

.. and tri radial looks so much nicer! A proper padded luff is much more important IMHO as it keeps sail shape when reefed down

 

[Robin]

I am finalsing specfication with the sailmaker for new genoa.

Boat is westerly 33 sloop, so not the fastest, however I do like to get the best out of her. I have lots of tweeky bits and play with them.

We are repalcing a Radial cut genoa from marblehead which has performed well

We have decided on dimension-polyant 310 material. The question is, will we notice any loss of performance if I go for a cross cut rather than a Radial Cut . Sail maker says not much difference.

It is a noticable saving in cost, but not enough to make up for wishing for a radial cut each time over the next 6-8- 10 years.

We had a bi-radial genoa on our W33 Ketch way back and a padded luff as well. On our last boat we had a tri-radial genoa and a tri-radial main, but these were significantly larger sails and much more heavily loaded and we had those made in Hydranet which is very high tech reinforced Dacron. Like you we had all the tweaky bits and wanted the best performance, so my choice would be the bi-radial cut (tri-radial is nicer looking but probably not justified) and if you really want the ultimate in keeping shape and longevity consider the Dimension Polyant Hydranet material as well.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Does anyone still build bi-radials? Bit of a nostalgia kick!

 

[sailor211]

It looks like I will be going for the radial cut. I am nearly convinced I will regret not having one because not just they do look nicer. I will be frustrated when i cannot get her going as fast as I would like


Sail maker says lots more wastage so prehaps i should ask for the off cuts

 

[Habebty]

Ask about a rope luff rather than foam, the foam tends to stay squashed after a 3-4 years whereas a rope will keep its profile. Just ordered some new sails and several sailmakers recommended a rope luff.

 

[Martin_J]

As Habebty says... my genoa has a rope section built in just behind some of the luff... then a double rope section for a smaller length... Never considered what foam might do

 

[little_roundtop]

As Habebty says... my genoa has a rope section built in just behind some of the luff... then a double rope section for a smaller length... Never considered what foam might do

The foam allows for the curved shape of the sail when you roller-reef it. The remaining sail keeps a better shape because the foam luff accommodates the curve of the sail when you reef it tightly.

 

[whipper_snapper]

If you really want tweaky bits, enjoy messing around on the foredeck and really care about performance, why not dump the roller reefing and go with a set of hanked-on headsails. The difference between a half wound in headsail and smaller sail fully out is phenomenal.

 

[sailor211]

If you really want tweaky bits, enjoy messing around on the foredeck and really care about performance, why not dump the roller reefing and go with a set of hanked-on headsails. The difference between a half wound in headsail and smaller sail fully out is phenomenal.

To some extent I agree but am too lazy not to have reefing.

I have a furling light airs gennika (160% ) 0 - 11 knots

Also fly a No 3 blade (90%), hanked on inner forestay, up wind up to 35 kts and intend yo have reef points put in this so i can reduce it to a No4 . No 3 is superb on a windy day

Working jib hanked on is good in 20 - 30 kts off the wind

New genoa is for use 10 - 25 kts so never heavily reefed.

 

[sailor211]

We have a furlex which takes a partial turn on the foil before the drum so should flatten the sail first.
I had intended to fit the foam luff (or rope) after a few seasons to reduce teh effects of stretch

 

[laika]

Is it better to revive an old thread or repeat some of the content in a new one?

Much conflicting advice from sailmakers at the boat show whilst researching new sails. Heard the "all the benefits of a radial cut are lost as the sail is reefed" statement from one and a contradictory statement to the effect that the more complex radial cut could be made to retain a more effective shape as it was reefed/furled down from another. What should I believe?

Also...(for the non-expert) whilst I believe I've grasped some of the basics of the radial vs. cross cut question, I'm less clear about biradial vs triradial. Is this simply a performance vs complexity/price trade-off? Are there differing cloth considerations?

What warp-orientated wovens are there worth looking at these days for a radial genoa? Hydranet Radial seems hugely expensive. I don't seem to have googled much independent assessment of NorDac Radian (anyone any experience?).

Feeling rather ignorant and daunted (err..so nothing new there). Genoa is 51 square metres. Discounting laminates as the plan is for extended cruising in warmer climes.

 

[brian48]

Laika,
I am in a similar situation as I want to buy new sails and am equally confused about materials and cuts. However if you are going long term cruising (as I am doing) you might find it useful to read this:http://www.bethandevans.com/sails.htm

 

[Pete7]

I am glad I am not the only one then after a trip round the boat show. I am now sat surrounded by samples. Seems North have changed the names of some of their cloths. Nordac 4800 a lower spec cloth becomes Nordac ND68LA , a catchie name listed as Premium 100 on the website.

Twister Ken has a North Radian tri-radial (Premium 200?) which he seems very pleased with and a radial sail quote was only a couple of hundred more than a cross cut ND68LA on Thursday. Radian seems a very smooth tightly woven material.

Kemps with a new outlet in Premier Gosport gave a very good price on Bainbridge Ocean Premium Plus sail to a cross cut design. It's the one with the squares every half an inch. More upmarket was something called Portland Premium but can't tell what the manufacturer is, help anyone know? Their Performance Cruiser Genoa design has a number of extras for those who like to tweak the sail shape. They would make a sail out of Marblehead but weren't overly keen on it.

The Kyrospruce website lists prices for several different popular cloths which may help sort them into a pecking order. Either they have made a mistake or medium weight Marblehead cloths seems cheap in comparison to others.

http://www.kayospruce.com/index.asp...h&InBox=Challenge Sailcloth&cct=1&TypeSearch=

The research continues.

Pete

 

[laika]

More upmarket was something called Portland Premium but can't tell what the manufacturer is, help anyone know?

+1. They were suggetsing this to me too but can't even find mention of it on the Kemp site, let alone the rest of the Interweb.

Still curious to hear on further opinions as to whether the shape benefits of a radial genoa over cross cut are eliminated when the thing is partially furled