Radar Target Enhancer (RTE)

An interesting outcome in this debate. Given the generally positive note I’m surprised that Digital Yacht or the suchlike do not compete in the marketplace. Good for Echomax though - but Echomax shares!
 
pvb said:
The one display which virtually every ship's watchkeeper will be paying attention to is the radar. So making sure you show up on that is paramount. If you transmit AIS, it may or may not get noticed.
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Particularly, as has been imparted here previously, ships AIS displays are generally in an old-school format, unlike what we see on our chartplotters, and are not front and centre to the watchkeepers' gaze.
 
Spirit (of Glenans) said:
Particularly, as has been imparted here previously, ships AIS displays are generally in an old-school format, unlike what we see on our chartplotters, and are not front and centre to the watchkeepers' gaze.
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And yet we continually see posts from people who decide to fit an AIS transceiver "to ensure that they're seen by ships"! A sailing myth...
 
Robih said:
I had a SeaMe RTE on my last boat, the new to me boat now forces consideration again of whether the considerable investment (and adding weight at the very top of the mast) is worthwhile. There is a very good thread dated 2012 on here where generally the opinions were positive about the benefits of RTEs.

Fast forward on eight years and it seems that SeaMe no longer manufactures their unit and the only option is Echomax who do a dual band RTE. The world has also changed with the widespread adoption of AIS. I am surprised that Echomax is the only product in the marketplace - which points to low/no demand for the product. Maybe folk now think the RTE technology is now surpassed by AIS/MARPA?

Opinions please?
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For me it's:

1) AIS transceiver.
2) Echomax RTE
3) Radar

But I don't go far. If I was going to cross oceans, I would probably fit 1 and 2 and consider 3 - certainly on a larger, crewed boat.

.
 
doug748 said:
For me it's:

1) AIS transceiver.
2) Echomax RTE
3) Radar

But I don't go far. If I was going to cross oceans, I would probably fit 1 and 2 and consider 3 - certainly on a larger, crewed boat.

.
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Interesting. My order would be the complete reverse of yours. Good job we’re all different eh, otherwise we’d all buy the same boats with the same bits added - very dull.....
 
Spirit (of Glenans) said:
Particularly, as has been imparted here previously, ships AIS displays are generally in an old-school format,
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The “minimum keyboard and display” is still legally acceptable as far as I know, but I’m sceptical that it’s all that ships “are generally” using. Some, sure, but the last bridge I visited had several very nice ECDIS displays with radar and AIS overlaid together, and plenty of MAIB reports refer to similar installations.

I doubt there’s any way to collect the data, but I’d be very curious what proportion of ships in European waters do and do not have a graphical AIS plot visible on the bridge in 2020.

Pete
 
Most of them avoid me before I feel compelled to ask so I'm a bit sceptical about the "myth" comments. There are exceptions like earlier this year transiting back from north of Majorca to Valencia where a cargo vessel closing from astern and got to 2 miles without altering course. A quick call via DSC established that he hadn't seen me but immediately altered course once alerted. I'm not sure he would have noticed anyone based on the sleepy way he spoke but we will never know.
 
Buck Turgidson said:
A quick call via DSC established that he hadn't seen me but immediately altered course once alerted. I'm not sure he would have noticed anyone based on the sleepy way he spoke but we will never know.
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Certainly last time I crossed back from France, which was foggy, I heard another yacht calling a ship to ask its intentions.

The OOW on the ship sounded confused, and said “I do not see you on AIS”.

The yacht skipper replied to say “We do not have AIS, do you see us on radar?”

There was a bit of a pause before the ship came back and agreed that he had a good echo on the radar, and would alter slightly to pass astern.

That says to me that, even though he shouldn’t, that particular watchkeeper was avoiding collision primarily or exclusively by AIS, not radar.

There was also a CHIRP report a few years ago, where AIS and radar were on separate screens on opposite sides of the bridge. The ship had a near-miss with something that (as revealed afterwards by the ECDIS screen recordings) showed clearly on the radar display. The AIS screen had a comfy chair in front of it, and the OOW was presumed to have been sitting in that and dodging the other moving arrows, while not paying attention to the radar. Obviously not good practice, but the point is that it apparently happens.

Pete
 
pandos said: "......I wondered if there were any DIY types about..."

I believe the radar uses time and phase of the returned signal to establish distance off, this makes it a non trivial task to DIY. As you are broadcasting the equipment must comply with OFCOM regulations and be licensed. A simple ping wouldn't show how far away you were. I think....
 
Lucy52 said:
pandos said: "......I wondered if there were any DIY types about..."

I believe the radar uses time and phase of the returned signal to establish distance off, this makes it a non trivial task to DIY. As you are broadcasting the equipment must comply with OFCOM regulations and be licensed. A simple ping wouldn't show how far away you were. I think....
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You are correct in how they work.. but most of that work will be done on a few chips,

I have no doubt could be made and sold for a few hundred...a dual band RTE is nearly 1000 euros on some sites,

I think it is just straight forward profiteering... Pity NASA do not make one...
 
Slight drift - I'm surprised that anyone buys and/or fits the passive radar reflectors which were technically shown to be innefective to a large degree in the MIAB report after the small yacht "Ouzo" was sunk by a ferry off Bembridge a few years back. Yet they still seem to sell well (on here and at the chandlers). I chucked ours in the skip.

See section 2.6.5 in the report as below to see MIAB's conclusions:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547c7053ed915d4c10000083/OuzoReport.pdf
 
Gary Fox said:
h

Yes a total myth
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I admit to responding to personal experience, so ever since a close shave in fog off Zeebrugge I have gone the active navigation route, that means radar. I need to know as best as possible what's out there and decide my own course of action. Of course, if an oncoming vessel gets a ping off my radar reflector and takes action so much the better - a bonus but not the first line of defence.
Even if an oncoming sees your AIS, depending on his circumstances he may not be able or willing to deviate; most of the heavy metal emerging from the Maas in Holland conforms to this pattern. Right of way!
And radar really scores when making a landfall in difficult visibility. Sure, plotters are a game changer but are not the total solution.

PWG
 
pandos said:
You are correct in how they work.. but most of that work will be done on a few chips,

I have no doubt could be made and sold for a few hundred...a dual band RTE is nearly 1000 euros on some sites,

I think it is just straight forward profiteering... Pity NASA do not make one...
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You are quite right they are well overpriced, a top swindlery price.

I looked to make my own but gave up when I realised it wasn't so straightforward.

Yes, It would be nice if NASA made one.
 
peter gibbs said:
I admit to responding to personal experience, so ever since a close shave in fog off Zeebrugge I have gone the active navigation route, that means radar. I need to know as best as possible what's out there and decide my own course of action. Of course, if an oncoming vessel gets a ping off my radar reflector and takes action so much the better - a bonus but not the first line of defence.
Even if an oncoming sees your AIS, depending on his circumstances he may not be able or willing to deviate; most of the heavy metal emerging from the Maas in Holland conforms to this pattern. Right of way!
And radar really scores when making a landfall in difficult visibility. Sure, plotters are a game changer but are not the total solution.

PWG
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COLREGS is the proper solution to this. Of course that doesn't exclude proactive avoidance on your part as until you are in visual range you cannot know his classification with regards to priority. Unless it is stated in his AIS data ;-)

Listening on 16 in or close to busy shipping lanes is always an eye (ear) opener as the amount of negotiation for passing manoeuvres opposite to COLREGS can be alarming at times. I listened to a collision in real time last year in the Tarifa TSS area caused by negotiating passing by two vessels opposite to COLREGS which caused a third to have to try to reverse his correction at the last moment.

Afterwards, the only answer to requests to pass on the wrong side was "COLREGS" for the next few hours.
 
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