Radar scanner stolen. What now skipper?

jimmy_the_builder

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I've got (had..) a Raymarine enclosed analogue scanner on the T40, connected to a C120 Classic. All fine, worked well enough for my leisure use, no particular plan to change.

Anyway, without wishing to get into too much detail, the scanner was stolen a few days ago. Unfortunately, the way the tealeaves disconnected the scanner was the 'pull it as hard as possible until the electrical connections let go' method. In other words, the multi-way cable that connects the scanner to the C120 has been shock-loaded by the forcible removal of the scanner.

My concern is that this shock-load might manifest itself at some indeterminate future point as unreliability with the replacement scanner. However, it's likely that that point of failure would be somewhere around the bends that the cable has to wind round though the radar arch at the scanner end of the cable. I've got some slack in this cable, neatly coiled up at the C120 end of the cable - so the first question is - can I pull this slack through to the scanner end of the cable, and then chop off the surplus (ie cut out the bit of the cable that has been shock-loaded)? Can the cable be shortened in this way? (I know you definitely can't do this with the digital radar scanners, hence the question). This is an important point for me, because on those occasions that you are really relying on the radar, you haven't got many other options (ie in fog, at night etc).

The other issue I have is that analogue scanners are no longer available new, so at best my only real option is to buy a secondhand replacement of unknown provenance on ebay - another potential point of unreliability. The obvious other choice therefore is to upgrade to a new digital scanner - but that then means I'll need a new MFD, and possibly other new kit as well (I currently have S2G autopilot, ST6001 control head, DSM30 fishfinder all connected to the MFD) - so it suddenly becomes an expensive exercise. I'm not very familiar with the current Raymarine product offering so I don't even know what I would need to specify as a replacement suite of electronics.

What now skipper?
 
cant Help with your problem , just a shame that some low life has now caused issues where none were needed, hope you get it sorted soon
 
I think the only practical way forward for you is to keep your eyes peeled on eBay for a replacement scanner with cable.
Once purchased, do a temporary installation to test it out (without threading the cable all the way through everything) then you'll know pretty quickly if it's a dud or a good 'un.

Duds can be returned / refunded or challenged, so you should be a winner either way.

I recently went through the dilemma of needing a new radar and was horrified at the consequential costs and complexity of going down the digital route, so I know exactly what you mean there.
I'm quite happy with my stand alone Furuno, for the 2-4 occasions a year when I need and use it.
 
Against all advice and instructions from Raymarine I cut the radar cable so I could thread it down the mast and through the deck structure on our yacht. I also added in an extra length at a later date so it would reach the cockpit. Never had any issues with it running on a C120.
 
What a pain..
Well, Jimmy, I think you are quite right the flag the potential safety issues involved here, and this certainly is not the time to consider cutting corners just for the sake of a few quid.
Although I am not personally familiar with the extreme dangers you face each time you leave the marina in the Med, I think you have no option for the safety of yourself and crew to go out and treat yourself to a whole new helm of toys... err.. I mean install vital safety equipment.
(This is what you wanted someone to say, right? ;)
 
This is what you wanted someone to say, right? ;)

Tee-hee, no, not at all. If I could get a new replacement analogue scanner, we wouldn't be having this conversation - but I can't. Like Trundlebug above, there aren't many occasions in the year when I _need_ the radar - but when I really do need it (like when I encountered a 6 mile thick fog bank crossing back from Corsica at the end of August, for example) then I do want it to work, and not have failed because of a marginal cable failure. Although we have many redundant systems on the boat, the radar is not one of them.

I have no idea what a new digi scanner, plus mfd, plus new autopilot head/computer, new fishfinder, new gps etc would cost, or even what bits I need.
 
I have no idea what a new digi scanner, plus mfd, plus new autopilot head/computer, new fishfinder, new gps etc would cost, or even what bits I need.
Yes many of us with mid 2000 boats have faced this one as Seatalk goes up a gear and digital so everything new, so not much change out of a one with four zeros after it especially if you need a professional to fit it.
 
Jimmy ,
that "marine electronque " spelling ? shop on the roundabout by the marina -Antibes -has loads of second H stuff taken off boats upgrading
I managed to get a autopilot head
 
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Hi Jimmy
What a pain
Boat builders often cut and remake the cables despite the "warnings" from the manufacturers, so if you do it well then no problem there

If you get a digital radar then you need a digital MFD but beyond that everything else will be fine. As long as the MFD accepts and talks nmea0183 as well as n2k (and they all do afaik don't they?) then the other gear on your boat incl a/pilot will work fine

Would a 4 foot open array radar be too big? Digital, Garmin. I have a reason for asking; too long to explain

Good luck anyway
 
I've got (had..) a Raymarine enclosed analogue scanner on the T40, connected to a C120 Classic. All fine, worked well enough for my leisure use, no particular plan to change.

Anyway, without wishing to get into too much detail, the scanner was stolen a few days ago. Unfortunately, the way the tealeaves disconnected the scanner was the 'pull it as hard as possible until the electrical connections let go' method. In other words, the multi-way cable that connects the scanner to the C120 has been shock-loaded by the forcible removal of the scanner.

My concern is that this shock-load might manifest itself at some indeterminate future point as unreliability with the replacement scanner. However, it's likely that that point of failure would be somewhere around the bends that the cable has to wind round though the radar arch at the scanner end of the cable. I've got some slack in this cable, neatly coiled up at the C120 end of the cable - so the first question is - can I pull this slack through to the scanner end of the cable, and then chop off the surplus (ie cut out the bit of the cable that has been shock-loaded)? Can the cable be shortened in this way? (I know you definitely can't do this with the digital radar scanners, hence the question). This is an important point for me, because on those occasions that you are really relying on the radar, you haven't got many other options (ie in fog, at night etc).

The other issue I have is that analogue scanners are no longer available new, so at best my only real option is to buy a secondhand replacement of unknown provenance on ebay - another potential point of unreliability. The obvious other choice therefore is to upgrade to a new digital scanner - but that then means I'll need a new MFD, and possibly other new kit as well (I currently have S2G autopilot, ST6001 control head, DSM30 fishfinder all connected to the MFD) - so it suddenly becomes an expensive exercise. I'm not very familiar with the current Raymarine product offering so I don't even know what I would need to specify as a replacement suite of electronics.

What now skipper?

you dont need to change the pilot or any other stuff. i have a 1992 pilot into my 2013 mfd.

and you can sell the old mfd.
 
I have no idea what a new digi scanner, plus mfd, plus new autopilot head/computer, new fishfinder, new gps etc would cost, or even what bits I need.

What you need is someone who has been looking at this stuff recently, now where could we find... ah, I know, me. Well, sort of.

Did you know that Raymarine in Fareham have an excellent demo room, with lots gear on mounts that let you look behind, different options cabled up etc. You can ring and book a session with a salesman (I had Ross) who merrily spends as long as you want chatting away and as it is at their offices he can go and ask support if you stump him. Not really a salesman BTW, he sells to dealers not end-users.

I think you sell the C120 on eBay (I am told they are in demand). Then you buy an A series MFD in the version with sonar (touchscreen plotter plus full on Dragonfly sonar, plus wifi allows connection of Android/Apple tablet to view and control MFD). A128 12" list price = £2,750, A98 9" list = £2,000. You can add a remote keypad (just like the E series right hand side buttons) for £250 and site it in best place to reach easily. Then you add the gizmo to interlink old ST with STng (R52131) plus 5 way connector (A06064) plus various cables and terminators etc (maybe £150 in total). You keep the autopilot, speed transducer etc.

I didn't ask about radar, but the 4KW 24" is £1,750.

So even keeping some stuff it adds up pretty quick - just over £4k without fitting.

You get a new transducer with the fancy sonar/fishfinder, old DSM30 won't do it. If happy with DSM30 you can get A125 or A95 which has wifi, but no sonar built in and save £300 on the MFD price.

Those are VAT inclusive prices without discounts and without fitting.
 
Hi Jimmy

If you get a digital radar then you need a digital MFD but beyond that everything else will be fine. As long as the MFD accepts and talks nmea0183 as well as n2k (and they all do afaik don't they?) then the other gear on your boat incl a/pilot will work fine

Both RMarine and Promarine have said that is right. I plan on the same on the Rodman. It has C80, DSM30, speed transducer, RD218 radar, to which I'll add an A78 (Dragonfly sonar plus wifi) but leave everything else in place.
 
That is something of a nuisance. I would be inclined to go for the digital scanner + MFD, with new cables(!) and leave everything else in situ. Then you've got a second plotter, plus you can run one screen just on radar and one on plotter, or you can run a radar/plotter overlay plus have the existing stuff operating on the other screen. Not a bad upgrade. Plus this would allow you to go for another brand on the new scanner/display if you wanted. Plus tbh I think you'd get away with a smaller scanner and do the job for £3k with a reasonable compromise on the MFD.

I replaced an analogue radar a couple of years ago on Snow Goose with a Garmin 18"HD scanner running through a Garmin 3010 display and found this worked just fine.
 
Jimmy ,
that "marine electronque " spelling ? shop on the roundabout by the marina -Antibes -has loads of second H stuff taken off boats upgrading
I managed to get a autopilot head

That's a good tip, thanks Portofino, but in fact the boat's now back in the UK, so I'm not expecting to be back in Antibes for another six months or so.
 
Hi Jimmy
What a pain
Boat builders often cut and remake the cables despite the "warnings" from the manufacturers, so if you do it well then no problem there

If you get a digital radar then you need a digital MFD but beyond that everything else will be fine. As long as the MFD accepts and talks nmea0183 as well as n2k (and they all do afaik don't they?) then the other gear on your boat incl a/pilot will work fine

Would a 4 foot open array radar be too big? Digital, Garmin. I have a reason for asking; too long to explain

Good luck anyway

Thanks for the clarity on the cable cutting. That does at least answer one question.

A 4ft open array could probably be made to fit (the early drawings of the T40 show it with a slightly smaller Furuno open array scanner) but I suspect that some surgery would be required to the light mast - although in the grand scheme of things, this isn't a particularly big deal I guess.
 
you dont need to change the pilot or any other stuff. i have a 1992 pilot into my 2013 mfd.

and you can sell the old mfd.

Thanks; yes, I can see from ebay that the old C120 should return a few hundred quid. That does slightly soften the blow of a new Raymarine C125 (£1889).
 
Sorry to hear about this Jimmy. What does your insurance co say about this?
 
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