Radar reflector - new rules?

Fimacca

Fimacca

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 Mar 2013
Messages
440
Location
Somerset
Visit site
A Harbour master told me recently the mca rules have changed and all craft need radar reflectors now. I was only aware of craft over a certain size. Or those craft used comercially - that needed them .

I have checked online. Cannot find any confirmation ?

What is the consensus here.........
 
Fimacca said:
A Harbour master told me recently the mca rules have changed and all craft need radar reflectors now. I was only aware of craft over a certain size. Or those craft used comercially - that needed them .

I have checked online. Cannot find any confirmation ?

What is the consensus here.........
Click to expand...

Not new AFAIK part of the Solas V regulations for as long as I can remember

http://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/regulations/pleasure-craft/Pages/solas-v-regulations.aspx

I have had a fixed reflector since before the days of SOLAS, although not on the dinghy
 
Most of us, I suspect, look at it from a different direction - how would things look if we found ourselves in a situation without one, or facing an inquiry?
 
If anyone feels the need to fit one solely for the sake of complying with some rules, fit the smallest cylindrical one you can find to a shroud and forget about it.
 
You run the risk of opening the regular can of worms with this one. It's fairly obvious since the QinetiQ report that all reflectors are not equal and some are worse than useless as they give a completely false sense of security. Ones that give an adequate return at one frequency won't be so effective at the other.

I know of no dual frequency Radar transponders either.

Of the stacked arrays, I understand larger Echomax (sic) to be the best but it was generally accepted that the most effective ones tested were the tri-lens; even so a big one would look rather out of place on a Seahorse 700 and the small one is less effective.

I have no confidence in the folding tri-hedrals, even when correctly oriented, or the tubular ones.
 
We had one hoisted (in rain catching orientation) when coming up the Bristol Channel in fog and reached Milford Haven without being run down so it worked for us. I later fitted an Echomax with similar results, so my confidence in passive reflectors is absolute.
An active reflector or radar would no doubt work better but my pockets are not deep enough and boat now too small for such luxuries.
 
bbg said:
If anyone feels the need to fit one solely for the sake of complying with some rules, fit the smallest cylindrical one you can find to a shroud and forget about it.
Click to expand...

The small Plasitimo one simly doesn't work, and that fact is widely known and promulgated, so by fittig it you would not comply with any rules in the UK at least. It might pass a rule in France I suppose.

The interesting legal point is whether there is any requirement in the UK to comply with any rules at all if one's boat is small enough. The legislation is explicit in stating that there are no mandated requirements for equipment aboard if less than 13.7m length. But it's also clear that one nonetheless has to comply with Solas V whatever the size, and Solas requires various capabilities, including a radar reflector if practicable. These two are in conflict and thus would be tested by the courts were a prosecution to be brought following an accident. My guess - purely that - is that a skipper stands a strong chance of being judged to have been negligent were he to have not carried the sort of safety equipment, including reflector of a sensible size, which is typical aboard his sort of yacht.

Thus by the back-door as it were I think that the UK does have a pretty much mandatory set of safety equipment, whether one likes it or not.
 
I asked a large car/passenger ferry when they had picked us up on their radar. The confirmed at 15nm. Weather was good and there was not much other traffic (their seldom is). Location south of Sydney, ferry was on its, then, regular run from Sydney to Hobart.

I did not ask which radar they were using when they first 'saw' us but I did not query their identification of us until we actually saw them (so they were looking for targets, not us specifically). We were, roughly, on their route.

But large passenger vessels do appear to take watch keeping seriously and usually have 2 tasked to watch (in addition to whatever makes up the bridge team). I'm not sure that the same attention to detail is taken with bulk carriers etc.

We do not have a radar reflector, other than the mast and boom. We are a 11.5m fibreglass cat.

Jonathan
 
jdc said:
The small Plasitimo one simly doesn't work, and that fact is widely known and promulgated, so by fittig it you would not comply with any rules in the UK at least. It might pass a rule in France I suppose.
Click to expand...

The Plastimo one is sold as a radar reflector, so unless there were a court case in the UK determining that it is not a "radar reflector", I suspect it would be sufficient to meet any rules that might exist to fit a radar reflector. I agree with you that it is rather ineffective, but it is not completely ineffective (i.e. invisible to radar).

I have yet to see any research that shows how effective other radar reflectors are in improving the radar signature of a vessel.

My personal approach would be to fit a dual-band radar target enhancer, and keep as large a tetrahedral one as I could store inside, disassembled but ready for use if necessary. And if the rules (of wherever I was sailing) required a radar reflector, tape a Plastimo one to the front of the mast a few meters up.
 
It's frequently been a curiosity to me that many of the very expensive boats out and about, have a fairly cheap and ineffective radar reflector. I've an Echomax on my wooden Folkboat, with wooden mast and boom, in part because otherwise the most reflective thing would be the kettle, but also because an Echomax is hugely more efficient than any other popular device. If you want your boat to be seen, you fit an active reflector; if you're not that bothered then you fit a passive item, and take the risks. The data is 'out there', and irrefutable. I also have an AIS transponer, in part so that my family can 'follow' my travels, but partly so that I'm visible when I might not otherwise be.
 
bbg said:
I have yet to see any research that shows how effective other radar reflectors are in improving the radar signature of a vessel.
Click to expand...

See link on #12. Having read that article some years ago I fitted an Echomax dual band on our last boat - a 22 foot trailer sailer that we used to cross the Channel at the narrow bit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top