Racing ethics

[michael_w]

In a recent race I witnessed an incident between two other boats.

Most of the fleet is heading up an one sided beat on port. I spot a boat in another class coming through on starboard. I clear ahead easily. Behind us another boat, also in another class, hasn't spotted the stbd tacker.

Sure enough there is a bit of argy bargy, including a plaintive bleat of "We're racing from the port tacker" as desperate avoiding action is taken by both boats.

The SI's have a scoring penalty for rule infringements of 2 places.

Today, looking at the results, the port tack perpetrator has won his class.

My race position is unaffected by this incident, the question is do I snitch on him to RC?

I should add that the Stbd tacker was in the non rated class and might not want the aggro of a protest.

 

[fireball]

Unless the word "Protest" was used then a subsequent protest is unlikely to be successful.

As another member of the fleet - you could've protested the infringing boat - especially if the standon vessel hasn't.

I would've thought your SIs have a time limit for Protests and redress requests to be submitted by.

 

[flaming]

Rules changed ages ago to get rid of third party protests.

The only boat who could protest the port tacker would be the starboard tacker. And they would have to shout protest and fly the flag "as soon as reasonably possible". If they didn't then there is nothing anyone else can do about it. So if you do snitch on him there is certainly no rule 10 protest possible.

The only possible action would be under rule 69, which looks like this.

"
69.1 Action by a Protest Committee
(a) When a protest committee, from its own observation or a report
received from any source, believes that a competitor may have
committed a gross breach of a rule, good manners or sportsmanship,
or may have brought the sport into disrepute, it may
call a hearing. The protest committee shall promptly inform the
competitor in writing of the alleged misconduct and of the time
and place of the hearing.
(b) A protest committee of at least three members shall conduct the
hearing, following rules 63.2, 63.3, 63.4 and 63.6. If it decides
that the competitor committed the alleged misconduct it shall
either
(1) warn the competitor or
(2) impose a penalty by excluding the competitor and, when
appropriate, disqualifying a boat, from a race or the remaining
races or all races of the series, or by taking other action
within its jurisdiction. A disqualification under this rule
shall not be excluded from the boat’s series score.
(c) The protest committee shall promptly report a penalty, but not a
warning, to the national authorities of the venue, of the competitor
and of the boat owner.
(d) If there is good reason for the competitor not to attend the hearing,
the protest committee shall postpone it. However, if the
competitor has left the event and as a result cannot reasonably
be expected to attend a hearing, the protest committee shall not
conduct one. Instead, it shall collect all available information
Part 5 PROTESTS, REDRESS, HEARINGS, MISCONDUCT AND APPEALS 68
37
and, if the allegation seems justified, make a report to the relevant
national authorities.
(e) When the protest committee has left the event and a report
alleging misconduct is received, the race committee or organizing
authority may appoint a new protest committee to proceed
under this rule."

So the protest comittee could technically appoint a new protest comittee to hear the "gross breach of a rule" protest.

But I'd be very supprised if they did. I'm sure they would say "if the starboard tack yacht believes itself to have been fouled then they would have protested." And with no such protest, and no damage, I don't think they'd rule that there was a "gross breach of a rule".

So I can see nothing good coming of informing the protest committe.
If you really feel that you must do something then in my opinion a far better course of action would be to contact the yacht in question and merely mention that you did see the incident and would they please make sure to take all relavent penalties on the race course in future.

 

[flaming]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless the word "Protest" was used then a subsequent protest is unlikely to be successful.

As another member of the fleet - you could've protested the infringing boat - especially if the standon vessel hasn't.

I would've thought your SIs have a time limit for Protests and redress requests to be submitted by.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was under the impression that third party protests had been invalidated, but reading rule 60 carefully it seems not.

"60 RIGHT TO PROTEST; RIGHT TO REQUEST REDRESS OR
RULE 69 ACTION
60.1 A boat may
(a) protest another boat, but not for an alleged breach of a rule of
Part 2 unless she was involved in or saw the incident"

Goes to show it's worthwhile re-reading the rules from time to time!

 

[TiggerToo]

oh gosh... I see now why I prefer cruising...

Don't we have enough of this sort of thing in everyday life?

Sorry, just completely naive. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[arfa]

Having just given racing a go and witnessed the winner take home the silverware after touching a mark and colliding with another boat in separate races (both incidents were due a disqualifiaction under the rules on the day) I am not sure what the attraction is. Whatever happened to the Corinthian spirit ?

 

[duncanmack]

" Racing Ethics "

Is that not an oxymoron?

 

[FullCircle]

The Pot Hunting Gits are everywhere, and want the pot by whatever means. Its not the prettiest side of humanity.

 

[alec]

[ QUOTE ]
In a recent race I witnessed an incident between two other boats.

Most of the fleet is heading up an one sided beat on port. I spot a boat in another class coming through on starboard. I clear ahead easily. Behind us another boat, also in another class, hasn't spotted the stbd tacker.

Sure enough there is a bit of argy bargy, including a plaintive bleat of "We're racing from the port tacker" as desperate avoiding action is taken by both boats.

The SI's have a scoring penalty for rule infringements of 2 places.

Today, looking at the results, the port tack perpetrator has won his class.

My race position is unaffected by this incident, the question is do I snitch on him to RC?

I should add that the Stbd tacker was in the non rated class and might not want the aggro of a protest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the report.

I'am sure most racers are decent and would give way to ANY sailing boat in this situation.

But................. They are getting less and less I'm afraid.


The only way to sort it is for boats over say 20 feet to have ribs following the racing, crewed and manned by third parties , and the crews having to pay for it.

In other words police it for the innocent bystanders and for fair play.

Racing is so aggressive and selfish now that they make waterbikes a pleasure.

There he go's again........................

 

[Cornishman]

Are they as bad mannered in Susthics?

 

[Rob_Webb]

I enjoy racing (mainly on OPBs) but it's a shame how it transforms some people. Recently I was working the fordeck on a boat I regularly race and as approached the wing mark I though we were looking a bit close especially with a huge gennaker flying. Then as we rounded I moved to the other side of the boat to prepare to gybe the gennaker but a competitor in our class behind us claimed we touched the mark with our gennaker and that it actually backwinded the sail and caused the inflatable mark to roll. I really didn't see but it was certainly close and if video footage showed us touching the mark I wouldn't have been surprised. But the guys in my cockpit swore blind we didn't hit it. Whereas the guys behind us swore that we did and flew a protest flag.

Either way someone was lieing pretty convincingly.

In the end the other guys were told they could protest us but as they didn't have an independent witness it would be their word against ours with no supporting evidence and would therefore be dismissed. So they didn't pursue it.

I kept my mouth shut as I really didn't see it but the whole event left me feeling pretty uncomfortable and wishing the truth could be established either way.

 

[whipper_snapper]

These are reasons why I don't much enjoy round-the-cans racing any more. But I *love* team or match racing. The intensity and excitement is incredible, there are more rules-based decisions in 10 seconds than in a typical season's racing or lifetimes cruising and you get away with NOTHING.