"Quick" combined calorifier/ immmersion heater

[davidej]

Does anyone have experience of these Italian jobs - "Quick" is the tradename.

Our immersion heater cuts out from time to time and there is a tiny reset button behind the temperature dial. Up to now I have managed to reset it when this happens.

The heater is not working again and, as far as I can see, the button seems to be out out. But (hanging upside down with a torch in my mouth and a mirror in my left hand) it doesn't want to reset. So I can't be certain if it actually is in or out.

I have checked that mains is present so that can't be the problem. I would like to try to take the whole element/ thermostat out so I can look at it properly, or just get the cover off that part. I can't see how to remove the cover and getting the whole element out seems to be a major dismantling job which would require a drain down.

Any suggestions ??

 

[vyv_cox]

I'm not certain about your particular make but I have assisted several owners who have had similar problems. There is something of a mixture of metals around the heating element with the result that it corrodes, shorting out the electrics. Some makes have an anode that needs to be replaced, although I cannot see one listed for yours. It might be wise to remove the element to check.

 

[davidej]

I'm not certain about your particular make but I have assisted several owners who have had similar problems. There is something of a mixture of metals around the heating element with the result that it corrodes, shorting out the electrics. Some makes have an anode that needs to be replaced, although I cannot see one listed for yours. It might be wise to remove the element to check.

The handbook suggests it does have an anode - I confess I have never checked it.

I assume I have to undo the big hexagonal 'nut' to withdraw the element and thermostat - difficult without the correct box spanner. I night have to take off the right angle unions where the water supply and off take conbnect.

All together a big job! And then parts may be hard to get.

 

[pvb]

All together a big job! And then parts may be hard to get.

You should have no difficulty getting parts, Quick calorifiers are quite common.

 

[VicS]

The handbook suggests it does have an anode - I confess I have never checked it.

I assume I have to undo the big hexagonal 'nut' to withdraw the element and thermostat - difficult without the correct box spanner. I night have to take off the right angle unions where the water supply and off take conbnect.

All together a big job! And then parts may be hard to get.

Standard size domestic immersion heater spanner ???????

http://www.screwfix.com/p/plumbing-tools-by-rothenberger-cranked-immersion-spanner-122mm/20266
or
http://www.screwfix.com/p/box-immersion-spanner/29549

 

[maby]

Standard size domestic immersion heater spanner ???????

http://www.screwfix.com/p/plumbing-tools-by-rothenberger-cranked-immersion-spanner-122mm/20266
or
http://www.screwfix.com/p/box-immersion-spanner/29549

Probably not! The immersion heaters in marine tanks tend to be smaller than domestic units. I replaced the heater in a rather elderly Quick unit a few years ago and ended up buying the socket for a rather large lorry wheel nut from our local car parts supplier. It fitted perfectly and allowed me to use a standard half inch drive extension bar and ratchet.

 

[Mistroma]

I have a Quick Nautic B3 Water Heater (40 Litre) and it is worth keeping a spare element, possibly even a thermostat. I hunted around a lot when the element blew in Spain. Nobody understood what a box spanner was, even when shown catalogue pictures. I did eventually get a spare element for around 85 Euro.

I think Quick normally have 1.5" BSP elements rather than the usual size so a standard immersion spanner will be too big. Also they have an odd thermostat with spade terminals that plug into the element which can appear to be part of the immersion element but just pulls off. Bainbridge marine do parts for them, but Penguin Engineering were much cheaper. If you buy a new element then it will be fairly easy to source an appropriate box spanner. They do three types of BX calorifier, round, square and oblong but I think they all use the same elements & thermostats.

This is from memory:
1) Drain the tank, took ages on my system.
2) Disconnect power then remove the outer cover (3 recessed screws)
3) Remove cable clamp (2 screws)
4) Undo wire leading into element (screws on side of each connector)
5) Remove thermocouple by pulling out gently, lever lightly underneath if required

N.B. The 240V wires you removed actually connect to the thermostat and that has lugs on the inside face. These lugs are a push fit into sockets on face of the element.

6) Use long nose mole grips or adjustable spanner with thin jaws to reach in and grip flats on the element. It's usually easy to undo because it is only sealed with a nitrile o-ring.

The replacement came with an anode and using it was a big mistake. I removed the element 6 months later to find that the anode had gone and the base of the tank was covered in thick orange sludge. The original lasted 5 years without an anode and the tank was still pretty clean.

I found that Penguin Engineering were easily the cheapest supplier and stocked 500W, 800W and 1,200W versions of the element. They also supply the thermostat.

It does sound as if you might only need a new thermostat and that can be replaced very easily without draining the tank (steps 2-5 above). However, it's worth buying a spare element at the same time. I seem to remember that Penguin only charged about 60% of chandlery element prices and that included a thermostat.

You can search for QKOSPKIT1200 on bainbridgemarine.com to see the element I have.
http://www.bainbridgemarine.com/Item.aspx?Item=PRD-010090&PartNo=QKOSPKIT1200

The picture shows the element without the thermostat. You can see the hole it fits into and the sockets for power from thermostat into the element.

However, Penguin Engineering might still have them at about 50% of Bainbridge prices. You'd probably need to call or email Penguin as I seem to remember that their website doesn't list these items. Great people to deal with and they replied to my queries quickly.

 

[davidej]

delete

 

[davidej]

I have a Quick Nautic B3 Water Heater (40 Litre) and it is worth keeping a spare element, possibly even a thermostat. I hunted around a lot when the element blew in Spain. Nobody understood what a box spanner was, even when shown catalogue pictures. I did eventually get a spare element for around 85 Euro.

I think Quick normally have 1.5" BSP elements rather than the usual size so a standard immersion spanner will be too big. Also they have an odd thermostat with spade terminals that plug into the element which can appear to be part of the immersion element but just pulls off. Bainbridge marine do parts for them. If you buy a new element then it will be fairly easy to source an appropriate box spanner. They do three types of BX calorifier, round, square and oblong but I think they all use the same elements & thermostats.

This is from memory:
1) Drain the tank, took ages on my system.
2) Disconnect power then remove the outer cover (3 recessed screws)
3) Remove cable clamp (2 screws)
4) Undo wire leading into element (screws on side of each connector)
5) Remove thermocouple by pulling out gently, lever lightly underneath if required

N.B. The 240V wires you removed actually connect to the thermostat and that has lugs on the inside face. These lugs are a push fit into sockets on face of the element.

6) Use long nose mole grips or adjustable spanner with thin jaws to reach in and grip flats on the element. It's usually easy to undo because it is only sealed with a nitrile o-ring.

The replacement came with an anode and using it was a big mistake. I removed the element 6 months later to find that the anode had gone and the base of the tank was covered in thick orange sludge. The original lasted 5 years without an anode and the tank was still pretty clean.

I found that Penguin Engineering were easily the cheapest supplier and stocked 500W, 800W and 1,200W versions of the element. They also supply the thermostat.

It does sound as if you might only need a new thermostat and that can be replaced very easily without draining the tank (steps 2-5 above). However, it's worth buying a spare element at the same time. I seem to remember that Penguin only charged about 60% of chandlery element prices and that included a thermostat.

Mine is a BR model - square - no doubt obsolete by now but hopefully uses the same element and thermostat.

I am finding this hard to relate to mine.

I have obviously got the white cover off the back - in two halves about 6 in across.

The element and thermostat have a brown plastic cover over them - slightly smaller than the main retaining 'nut' and about 1/2 in deep. The two mains leads go into screw connectors each side (earth going to the carcass). The thermostat dial is a red plastic disc about 1/2 in across on the face of the brown cover. There is a hole in this which (if lined up properly) gives access to the reset button which is only about 2mm across.

Does this sound the same ? if so, can I just pull off the brown plastic cover to give access to the various contacts? I couldn't see any screws on its face holding it in place and assumed (perhaps wrongly) that, if I unscrewed the main 'nut' and pulled it out from the watertank, I would find small screws going in the other direction. I don't want to do this unless I am sure I can get the parts to reassemble it.

 

[vyv_cox]

The replacement came with an anode and using it was a big mistake. I removed the element 6 months later to find that the anode had gone and the base of the tank was covered in thick orange sludge. The original lasted 5 years without an anode and the tank was still pretty clean.

I find that the local water can make a huge difference. Several users in Greece have experienced very short anode lives and I have seen one calorifier that suffered terminal corrosion of the heating coil, from the fresh water side.

 

[Mistroma]

Mine is a BR model - square - no doubt obsolete by now but hopefully uses the same element and thermostat.

I am finding this hard to relate to mine.

I have obviously got the white cover off the back - in two halves about 6 in across.

The element and thermostat have a brown plastic cover over them - slightly smaller than the main retaining 'nut' and about 1/2 in deep. The two mains leads go into screw connectors each side (earth going to the carcass). The thermostat dial is a red plastic disc about 1/2 in across on the face of the brown cover. There is a hole in this which (if lined up properly) gives access to the reset button which is only about 2mm across.

Does this sound the same ? if so, can I just pull off the brown plastic cover to give access to the various contacts? I couldn't see any screws on its face holding it in place and assumed (perhaps wrongly) that, if I unscrewed the main 'nut' and pulled it out from the watertank, I would find small screws going in the other direction. I don't want to do this unless I am sure I can get the parts to reassemble it.

I had hoped you would have a B3 or BX model because the element fitting looks the same in all the pictures I've seen. It sounds as if your model is quite different and thermostat might be built into the element. I don't think that I can help with that model, sorry.

 

[Mistroma]

I find that the local water can make a huge difference. Several users in Greece have experienced very short anode lives and I have seen one calorifier that suffered terminal corrosion of the heating coil, from the fresh water side.

Yes, a friend mentioned that others had experienced problems with the water at Aguadulce and gone through a few elements. Our element went a little while after our first visit and water was poor. We cleaned the kettle every 1-2 weeks.

It was fine the next year and my wife heard people taking about the money spent bringing in water tankers to alleviate a shortage of local water. Then we ran across a sign explaining some water improvement project. Hardly needed to clean the kettle that season.

Just something you have to accept when moving around.

 

[VicS]

Yes, a friend mentioned that others had experienced problems with the water at Aguadulce and gone through a few elements. Our element went a little while after our first visit and water was poor. We cleaned the kettle every 1-2 weeks.


Just something you have to accept when moving around.

Domestic immersion heaters are available with copper, Incoloy or titanium sheaths.

Copper is only suitable for soft water use but is not suitable for use in stainless steel tanks. I assume the calorifiers are stainless steel so this rules out copper sheathed immersion heaters.

Incoloy is suitable for hard or soft water and may be used in stainless steel tanks.

For the most aggressive waters or very hard water titanium should be chosen,

If one is moving around a lot it would be sensible to try to obtain titanium sheathed elements. A former colleague of mine had previously worked in a sea water corrosion research lab where they investigated the use of Ti for power station condenser tubes. He said it was a most uninteresting metal to work with...... it didn't do anything!

 

[Mistroma]

Domestic immersion heaters are available with copper, Incoloy or titanium sheaths.

Copper is only suitable for soft water use but is not suitable for use in stainless steel tanks. I assume the calorifiers are stainless steel so this rules out copper sheathed immersion heaters.

Incoloy is suitable for hard or soft water and may be used in stainless steel tanks.

For the most aggressive waters or very hard water titanium should be chosen,

If one is moving around a lot it would be sensible to try to obtain titanium sheathed elements. A former colleague of mine had previously worked in a sea water corrosion research lab where they investigated the use of Ti for power station condenser tubes. He said it was a most uninteresting metal to work with...... it didn't do anything!

Yes, standard element in the B3 is Incoloy. Only replacement I could find in Spain was Incoloy so titanium wasn't an option. I hunted around in UK to source a titanium element but failed.

Let me know if you have found a supplier for the slightly odd sized element for the Quick B3. As you say, it's pretty much a no-brainer. Unless it was >3xcost of the standard Incoloy version.

Normal sizes are readily available locally at reasonable prices for domestic use. Not much help to us at home because kettles will keep going for 20 years without need for any de-scaling.

 

[davidej]

Just an update

Penguin marine put me on to Spares marine, Torquay, who sent one the same day. The thermostat arrived this morning and is now installed and working. Very good service _£30 incl VAT and P&P.

Mistroma's instructions were spot on once I understood that the whole thing pulled straight off. I did lever it slightly with a screwdriver to get the spade terminals to part. Less than a 1/2 hr job.

Incidentally, now I have got the old one out, I have taken the cover off and can't see what was wrong with it. But the water wasn't heating and is now!

 

[Mistroma]

Glad that worked out. I've not had any experience of the square BR model and couldn't advise on thermostat removal in case it caused you to lever out something not meant to be dismantled. It sounds as if Quick did use the same type of part on your older model. That was lucky.

You could always dismantle the head of the old thermostat out of interest. You might not see any problem but I'd guess you'd see some damage due to repeated switching on/off. Always worth trying to clean any dirty contacts you do find and bench testing the output. Never know your luck and it might just serve as a temporary spare in future so no harm in keeping it. More likely to fall over again than a new one could get you out of a bind sometime.

 

[SKnapp2034]

Slightly different subject. I have recently received a new element for my Quick 20ltr calorifier, it came with both a rubber joint and a separate O’ ring. It doesn’t seem likely that both are used to seal the element to the calorifier body. Can only imagine that it’s an either or depending on your preference. Can anyone shed any light on this please.