Questioned by RNLI re not wearing lifejacket.

[longjohnsilver]

why did you feel it necessary to give him an answer, you had no need to justify yourself to him for sailing your own dinghy and minding your own business.
The simplest reply to cretins like that is "pee off and annoy someone else"

Well my philosophy is never to be knowingly rude or unpleasant to anyone; I'm sure he had his reasons to ask, but what those reasons were I really don't know. And as an RNLI volunteer I expect he provides a valuable service with little personal reward so for that he should be commended.

One of my main questions was has this happened to anyone else and it seems the answer is probably not.

 

[Touchwood]

Well my philosophy is never to be knowingly rude or unpleasant to anyone; I'm sure he had his reasons to ask, but what those reasons were I really don't know. And as an RNLI volunteer I expect he provides a valuable service with little personal reward so for that he should be commended.

A hearteningly sensible and generous attitude. I applaud you sir.

 

[zarathustra]

Well my philosophy is never to be knowingly rude or unpleasant to anyone; I'm sure he had his reasons to ask, but what those reasons were I really don't know. And as an RNLI volunteer I expect he provides a valuable service with little personal reward so for that he should be commended.

One of my main questions was has this happened to anyone else and it seems the answer is probably not.

I used encounter similar nosey cretins when I used do alot of cycling. I HATED wearing a cycle helmet, I know they are considered another of modern societies "safety devices" (even safer if you stay at home wrapped in coton wool and never venture outside) but I feel we should all have the freedom to choose what we wear after being informed as to the safety options, whether lifejacket or helmets. I used to have to wear the helmet for races as it became compulsory, but outside of that I would not wear one, I would stop cycling for leisure rather than wear one, and so would the vast majority of the public, a fact borne out in any region that has made helmets compulsory as the number of cyclists on the roads has always dropped considerably in any such region. As they aren't necessary here yet outside of races I was often questioned quite strongly, mostly be vastly inferior cyclists, as to where my helmet was on a training run, I used find it annoying, at first, like you, I would explain I didn't like them give my reasons and despite cycling thousands of miles every year had never once been in any situation or witnessed a situation where a helmet would have provided any useful protection whatsoever, despite seeing numerous tumbles, and I was more than willing to take the risks (you are far more likely to break a collar bone in a cycling fall than to suffer a serious head injury yet we don't push shoulder pads on people). My own explanations for choosing what to wear myself was never acceptable to these control police and they would push the issue repeatedly, usually ending with me cycling passed them. Your RNLI man reminds me of those tiresome encounters with the nosey control police who imagine they have some authority to tell everyone else what to do.

 

[Lakesailor]

I can entirely see your point of view.
Perhaps telling them to piss off is a bit confrontational.
I would prefer to just use my normal superior attitude and tell them to go and bother someone who could give a shit.

 

[jac]

I can entirely see your point of view.
Perhaps telling them to piss off is a bit confrontational.
I would prefer to just use my normal superior attitude and tell them to go and bother someone who could give a shit.

Personally I think the confrontational bit is a positive.

This is someone who was uninvited to comment and been rude to you ( Albeit perhaps with good intentions) - he hasn't got the hint when you've given a reason.

You could probably smack him round the head with a nearby oar and he wouldn't get the message to foxtrot oscar.

The problem is that people have different levels of sensibilities and the response you give should be tailored to that. So you would have to say very little to a shy elderly maiden aunt to shock her - probably something more blunt to shock a thick skinned rugby playing squaddie.

SO if he is being rude like this - take the nuclear option of telling him where to go and that you doubt his competence - He might then get the message, he might learn from it, he might not be so rude to others in future and it might make you feel better.

And if it all goes tits up and he throws you in then it will make great CCTV footage for the local security guards to watch at their xmas party!

 

[Greenwichman]

Going nuclear?

take the nuclear option of telling him where to go and that you doubt his competence ..... And if it all goes tits up and he throws you in then it will make great CCTV footage for the local security guards to watch at their xmas party!

OMG, better wear that chuffing lifejacket

 

[cliffordpope]

It's a bit like being asked whether you have a Boots loyalty card. Just say No.

Never apologize, never explain.

 

[Tintin]

FWIW, and probably not a lot, a firends dad died a few years ago because he fell out of his tender as he returned to shore after a days sailing from his mooring.

Since then I always wear my LJ in the tender. I also always wear it when sailing on my own, and more ofetn than not when with others.

I don't find them restrictive and its become a habit.

At the end of the day its my choice and I do so because I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Of course RNLI people being sanctimonious just makes people dig their heels in.

Interesting questionfor me, and I haven't seen it mentioned in the posts but may have missed it, did the OP have any form of flotation devices or lifejackets in the rib at all?

 

[Robin]

FWIW, and probably not a lot, a firends dad died a few years ago because he fell out of his tender as he returned to shore after a days sailing from his mooring.

Since then I always wear my LJ in the tender. I also always wear it when sailing on my own, and more ofetn than not when with others.

I don't find them restrictive and its become a habit.

At the end of the day its my choice and I do so because I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Of course RNLI people being sanctimonious just makes people dig their heels in.

Interesting questionfor me, and I haven't seen it mentioned in the posts but may have missed it, did the OP have any form of flotation devices or lifejackets in the rib at all?

I fell in a swimming pool once, but never fell out of a tender or overboard. So I should probably wear a lifejacket when at the pool.

Joking apart, some 40 years ago two YC members tipped their tender on the way ashore from their exposed mooring, choppy conditions and strong tide. One made it ashore the other died, neither wore LJs. So yes LJs would have saved a life, but then so would having a decent tender (it was a 7'6" ply pram) or staying on the boat until things improved. I had a mooring next to theirs and even with a much better tender would not have gone ashore without LJs that day and very probably would have waited for an improvement had we been on board.

The OP's situation was very much different, flat calm in a sheltered harbour, sunny day, very stable RIB as a tender, not a tippy pram. Different risk assessment resulted.

As a matter of interest, if say you went ashore by tender to a beach on a calm hot sunny day to go shopping or sightseeing, would you wear aLJ? If so would you walk around in it all day, leave it in the tender and risk it being stolen, or carry it around all day?

No implied criticism, genuine question.

 

[alant]

My life is worth more than £65, you are oviously still negotiating.

I fell in a swimming pool once, but never fell out of a tender or overboard. So I should probably wear a lifejacket when at the pool.

Joking apart, some 40 years ago two YC members tipped their tender on the way ashore from their exposed mooring, choppy conditions and strong tide. One made it ashore the other died, neither wore LJs. So yes LJs would have saved a life, but then so would having a decent tender (it was a 7'6" ply pram) or staying on the boat until things improved. I had a mooring next to theirs and even with a much better tender would not have gone ashore without LJs that day and very probably would have waited for an improvement had we been on board.

The OP's situation was very much different, flat calm in a sheltered harbour, sunny day, very stable RIB as a tender, not a tippy pram. Different risk assessment resulted.

As a matter of interest, if say you went ashore by tender to a beach on a calm hot sunny day to go shopping or sightseeing, would you wear aLJ? If so would you walk around in it all day, leave it in the tender and risk it being stolen, or carry it around all day?

No implied criticism, genuine question.

"As a matter of interest, if say you went ashore by tender to a beach on a calm hot sunny day to go shopping or sightseeing, would you wear aLJ? If so would you walk around in it all day, leave it in the tender and risk it being stolen, or carry it around all day?"

I have arrived at several conclusions from this statement, no implied criticism, simply observation -

(1) You don't live/sail in the UK - who ever heard of calm hot sunny days?

(2) If you were lucky enough to enjoy that sort of weather, are you guaranteed its continuation? Even a sea breeze, which is extremely likely in such conditions, can easily knock up a F5 + non calm sea, giving the "choppy conditions" you describe above.

(3) Why bother to mention the example tragedy you have given (Toad take note, it does actually happen), if you still assume/are certain 'it will never happen to me'.
How many have had that as their last thought?

(4) My life is worth + £65, which is about the cost of a LJ should it get stolen.

(5) As a thief, I'd simply just take the tender, thus possibly saving your life & should be gratefully thanked.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

"As a matter of interest, if say you went ashore by tender to a beach on a calm hot sunny day to go shopping or sightseeing, would you wear aLJ? If so would you walk around in it all day, leave it in the tender and risk it being stolen, or carry it around all day?".

I've got a better one.

Supposing you're anchored and on one occasion you swim ashore, and the next occasion you row ashore. Conditions are identical.

Should you wear an LJ for both trips to shore?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I've got a better one.

Supposing you're anchored and on one occasion you swim ashore, and the next occasion you row ashore. Conditions are identical.

Should you wear an LJ for both trips to shore?

Dont be ridiculous of course the lifejacket is not required when swimming ashore as the rescue rib will be alongside. Risk assessment man, risk assessment, remember?

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Dont be ridiculous of course the lifejacket is not required when swimming ashore as the rescue rib will be alongside. Risk assessment man, risk assessment, remember?

You're walking on thin ice BoB, SHMBO does not like being referred to as a "rescue rib". She's just big boned, that's all.

 

[Lakesailor]

Risk assessment man, risk assessment, remember?

That's the problem isn't it?
So many things which you take for granted are becoming formalised these days.
1st in the commercial sector, then it spreads down to organised activities and suddenly it's in your own personal life.
Everyone assess risks all day long
We don't need some beardy, hat-wearing oik to strut up and demand to know why we have obviously made an incorrect Risk Assessment, because he says so, of what we are doing for our own pleasure.
Bugger off and spoil someone else's day you knob-head.

....and don't even bother telling me it'll spoil my day if I drown, you tit.

(not you Blowin'. I'm talking to the officious RNLI man)




There. I feel better now.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I burst into tears as I thought you were referring to me. I obviously misunderstood your message.

 

[cliffordpope]

(5) As a thief, I'd simply just take the tender,QUOTE]



You wouldn't get far. You'd be picked up by the RNLI the moment you tried to push off without a life-jacket.

 

[Robin]

"As a matter of interest, if say you went ashore by tender to a beach on a calm hot sunny day to go shopping or sightseeing, would you wear aLJ? If so would you walk around in it all day, leave it in the tender and risk it being stolen, or carry it around all day?"

I have arrived at several conclusions from this statement, no implied criticism, simply observation -

(1) You don't live/sail in the UK - who ever heard of calm hot sunny days?

Not worth commenting.

(2) If you were lucky enough to enjoy that sort of weather, are you guaranteed its continuation? Even a sea breeze, which is extremely likely in such conditions, can easily knock up a F5 + non calm sea, giving the "choppy conditions" you describe above.

The main two places I had in mind are sheltered from the sea breeze effect in the wind directions I anchor there.
(3) Why bother to mention the example tragedy you have given (Toad take note, it does actually happen), if you still assume/are certain 'it will never happen to me'.
How many have had that as their last thought?

I mentioned it because the couple in question obviously did not do a risk assessment. Personally I wouldn't have had a tippy 7'6" ply pram as a tender in any conditions, at the time I had an Avon Redcrest. Irrelevant anyway because in the same circumstance we WOULD have used LJs, why? Risk assessment suggests it as a good idea.

(4) My life is worth + £65, which is about the cost of a LJ should it get stolen.

Yes but that is £130 for a couple and not once but every time they are stolen.

(5) As a thief, I'd simply just take the tender, thus possibly saving your life & should be gratefully thanked.

Yeah right. We have a different kind of scrote around here.

Scenario 2:-

In Lymington, up river on the buoys opposite Town Quay, 100yds at most, hot Saturday in July and we want to go ashore to the street market. Local kids are jumping off Town Quay into the water, bit of a nuisance factor and maybe they like LJs to sell? So do we wear LJs in the dinghy, we have a very stable 10ft Zodiac Fastroller with rigid inflatable floor? So if we do go ashore are we now going to walk around town (temps in the 80's F) wearing our LJs, leave them in the dinghy or carry them in one hand and our market shopping goodies in the other? Or does a commonsense risk assessment say leave the LJs on board, just take care!

 

[longjohnsilver]

Interesting questionfor me, and I haven't seen it mentioned in the posts but may have missed it, did the OP have any form of flotation devices or lifejackets in the rib at all?

No, not much point having them in the RIB if I wasn't going to wear them.

Just out of interest I wonder how many people have been thrown out of a small RIB when travelling at 6kts or less in sheltered waters? To me the riskiest part is getting in and out of the RIB and I'm always very careful when doing so, and so far in 25 yrs of boating have always managed to enter or leave the RIB without getting wet, apart from when I go diving!

It may also be of interest that with my diving activities (probably 1500+ dives in almost 30 years) that I have spent hundreds of hours floating on the surface waiting to be picked up. All my diving has been off the Devon/Dorset coast in both summer and winter so I have a pretty good idea about how cold the water can get. And how restrictive movement can be when wearing an inflated LJ (and yes before anyone asks I always wear a divers LJ when diving). I wonder how many people realise that sea water is now just about at its warmest and at its coldest around March/April and even early May, which is when the boating season really gets going.

It's those early months of the boating season when you really would not want to fall in without a dry suit. If you fell in now it may still come as a shock but not one that is likely to be too severe. Let's say that I did fall in off my boat on the mooring I'd far rather not be wearing an auto LJ because with it inflated I bet that I'd be drifting away with the tide and unable to do much more than a sort of doggy paddle which wouldn't be enough to get me back to my boat. Whereas without an inflated LJ I'm pretty sure that I'd be able to swim properly and grab either a mooring rope or the bathing platform before any tide swept me away. When the water is really cold you want to be out of it asap, I'm sure that most people including me would become incapacitated very quickly. For me a LJ would be a potential hindrance to getting out swiftly and certainly does nothing to keep you warm! But in open water ie out at sea, these arguments obviously do not apply, there is no reason I can think of not to wear a LJ.

It hadn't really occurred to me before but I suppose that there is an argument for wearing a non auto LJ when the water is colder, but what I consider to be right for me is most certainly not going to be the case for most others. Our own personal risk assessments are just that, personal and not universal. I take safety very seriously and make myself ultimately accountable for what happens to me. It's been an interesting thread which I hope has given a few people food for thought.

 

[KristiferColumbus]

Came ashore from our mooring in Dartmouth in our 2.8m RIB and was immediately accosted by local RNLI chap who asked why I wasn't wearing a lifejacket?

I'd have told him to mind his own business.(at least I will now that I've been forewarned)

 

[Slow_boat]

I've been in and out of boats for 40 years and I've yet to fall in, conscious or not.

Sometimes I wear a L/J, sometimes not. It my risk assesment on my life and no-one elses risk assesment counts.