Questioned by RNLI re not wearing lifejacket.
- Thread starter longjohnsilver
- Start date
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Can someone point at some info on these deaths. Certainly, I can't find MAIB reports for 19 sailing deaths.
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Is it not possible that the fact that you've seen one person suffering badly from Cold Water Shock has given you an exaggerated view of the danger and likelihood?
I've assisted three people in cold water. They had no thermal protection in Feb & all could self recover onto a Pontoon with minimal help from me. (A good tug on the belt.) This in spite of the fact that two of the three had hypothermia and were subsequently hospitalized.
None were wearing LJs, none were dead.
This is a futile argument since I doubt anyone keeps figures for the number of people falling in cold water without LJ and whether they die or not. My gut feeling is that the vast majority of healthy people falling in freezing water would come out alive if they got out fairly quickly. I don't know what your guess is? 50 per cent dead? I don't think that stacks up.
Either way, I won't be wearing a drysuit/wetsuit when sailing big boats, and I will continue to wear a drysuit/wetsuit dinghy sailing and windsurfing. YMMV.
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Pye_End
Well-Known Member
Are you expecting to see MAIB reports for them?
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Well I might be showing my ignorance here but I thought that the MAIB investigated every death. Is that wrong?
Pye_End
Well-Known Member
That is not my reading of their remit. If you look on their website you can find what they cover. I won't try to paraphrase it as I am sure you would rather read the original.
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
I didn't know that, thanks.
So, can someone point at some info on these 19 deaths???
Yeah, always better to read the original. If anyone else wants to it's here:
http://www.maib.gov.uk/about_us/index.cfm
I can't see anywhere where it says all deaths are investigated.
alant
Well-Known Member
I think your a troll
"I'm sure loads of people fall in cold water without dying."
"Yet, thermal protection is also complusory in the commercial arena. How do you explain that?"
"I've not seen figures but I bet it doesn't kill many. I expect few die at all and of the dead most succumb to the cold over a longer period of time.
Toady, above are three statements you have made on this thread, ALL of which have no evidential backup whatsoever & are actually just 'opinion' - yours - no "fact" within spitting distance!
"I'm sure",
"How do you explain",
"I've not seen figures but I bet"
Hardly matches the ethos of your personal profile " Where opinions differ I give more weight to those that are based on fact." You have no "facts", so please enlighten us with some.
"I object to being patronized and mislead."
Hooray!
So do the rest of us!
PS Just found another one "My gut feeling is "
"I'm sure loads of people fall in cold water without dying."
"Yet, thermal protection is also complusory in the commercial arena. How do you explain that?"
"I've not seen figures but I bet it doesn't kill many. I expect few die at all and of the dead most succumb to the cold over a longer period of time.
Toady, above are three statements you have made on this thread, ALL of which have no evidential backup whatsoever & are actually just 'opinion' - yours - no "fact" within spitting distance!
"I'm sure",
"How do you explain",
"I've not seen figures but I bet"
Hardly matches the ethos of your personal profile " Where opinions differ I give more weight to those that are based on fact." You have no "facts", so please enlighten us with some.
"I object to being patronized and mislead."
Hooray!
So do the rest of us!
PS Just found another one "My gut feeling is "
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toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
You can try to stop people posting opinion on YBW if you wish, but I don't fancy your chances.
You quote three opinions expressed by me:
1) I'm sure loads of people fall in cold water without dying.
2) Thermal protection is also compulsory in the commercial arena.
3) I've not seen figures but I bet it (Cold Water Shock) doesn't kill many. I expect few die at all and of the dead most succumb to the cold over a longer period of time.
3 is debatable. Do you disagree with 1 & 2? Why?
alant
Well-Known Member
That's just your opinion!
You've missed the point - yet again!
You seem to be insisting upon facts/evidence from ALL, when only supported by "opinions" from YOU.
Still seems unbalanced to me - but that's just my opinion!
PS what is your evidence that "You can try to stop people posting opinion on YBW if you wish, but I don't fancy your chances."?
I have said nothing of the sort - FACT!
Most people posting opinion, seem to have at least some evidence of 'fact', which seems to be entirely lacking in your continuous rubbishing of actual evidence posted by others.
In the Baltic (Fehmarn Belt) recently, I heard on our VHF the following in response to a Russian coaster which was ploughing west against all traffic in the east going lane of a seperation scheme. Travelling at 15knts directly toward others on a collision course also doing 15-25knts.
When hailed on 16 by many "vessel X, you are in the wrong lane", his reply was "that is just your opinion"!
I suspect some similarity.
You've missed the point - yet again!
You seem to be insisting upon facts/evidence from ALL, when only supported by "opinions" from YOU.
Still seems unbalanced to me - but that's just my opinion!
PS what is your evidence that "You can try to stop people posting opinion on YBW if you wish, but I don't fancy your chances."?
I have said nothing of the sort - FACT!
Most people posting opinion, seem to have at least some evidence of 'fact', which seems to be entirely lacking in your continuous rubbishing of actual evidence posted by others.
In the Baltic (Fehmarn Belt) recently, I heard on our VHF the following in response to a Russian coaster which was ploughing west against all traffic in the east going lane of a seperation scheme. Travelling at 15knts directly toward others on a collision course also doing 15-25knts.
When hailed on 16 by many "vessel X, you are in the wrong lane", his reply was "that is just your opinion"!
I suspect some similarity.
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
*Sigh*
I read and listen to opinion all the time.
My evidence is your post at 15:21 in which you berated me for stating opinions. Or are you happy with opinion being stated on YBW, unless it's from me? Which would be a little illogical, wouldn't it?
Err, in your post at 15:21 you berated me for stating opinions.
Well if, on this topic, other people's opinions are based on fact then I'm sure they'll state their facts and then I will have learned something.
The irony of all this is you actually *AGREE* with at least 2 of the 3 opinions you quoted.
alant
Well-Known Member
Brickwall!
"I read and listen to opinion all the time."
Then simply ignore them, inventing your own variety.
"if, on this topic, other people's opinions are based on fact then I'm sure they'll state their facts and then I will have learned something."
People with verifyable facts KEEP stating them & YOU, KEEP ignoring them.
You seem unable to learn anything.
"I read and listen to opinion all the time."
Then simply ignore them, inventing your own variety.
"if, on this topic, other people's opinions are based on fact then I'm sure they'll state their facts and then I will have learned something."
People with verifyable facts KEEP stating them & YOU, KEEP ignoring them.
You seem unable to learn anything.
Searush
Well-Known Member
"There's none so blind as them that WILL NOT see" 
Kochi
Well-Known Member
It has been interesting for me to read the public profile of some of the contributors to this thread. There really is a great deal of knowledge and experience out there amongst the forumites.
For people like me who want to learn this is a great resource.
For people like me who want to learn this is a great resource.
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Ok, well maybe I missed them. The three opinions you object to are:
1) I'm sure loads of people fall in cold water without dying.
2) Thermal protection is also compulsory in the commercial arena.
3) I've not seen figures but I bet it (Cold Water Shock) doesn't kill many. I expect few die at all and of the dead most succumb to the cold over a longer period of time.
Can you show me where people have stated any verifiable facts to contradict those opinions?
EDIT: I assume Searush's comment was backing up Alant, so same question to you Searush.
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Searush
Well-Known Member
If I kiss you, will you turn into a Princess?
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
I knew you'd be forced to evade the question. I didn't realize you'd do it with such style and panache!
Doghousekeeper
Well-Known Member
No need to limit yourself to just three. You're entitled to as many wrong opinions as you like.
It seems churlish for us to confuse you with the facts once you've made up your mind
doug748
Well-Known Member
Very true. The trick is learning which ones to ignore. : )
zarathustra
Well-Known Member
why did you feel it necessary to give him an answer, you had no need to justify yourself to him for sailing your own dinghy and minding your own business.
The simplest reply to cretins like that is "pee off and annoy someone else"