boguing
Well-Known Member
Re: clarification
Don't suppose that your chart plotter contains any evidence of your speed/postition?
Don't suppose that your chart plotter contains any evidence of your speed/postition?
Questioned by Guardia Civil
- Thread starter Magnum
- Start date
Magnum
RIP
Re: clarification
Not if that speed causes "grave danger" to the Guardia Civil, at least that's what it says on this paperwork.
Not if that speed causes "grave danger" to the Guardia Civil, at least that's what it says on this paperwork.
Magnum
RIP
Plotter
Thought about that, but to my knowledge there is no detailed recording except for average time and speed on a route (which I wasn't on) and track (which will not show them).
Thought about that, but to my knowledge there is no detailed recording except for average time and speed on a route (which I wasn't on) and track (which will not show them).
wakeup
Well-Known Member
A riskier strategy but might be worth the bluff
Tell them that you've got this data from your plotter and also that someone was filimng the whole event upto their boarding on a camorda and that you'll make the Guardia look pretty silly if you show this data and footage in court. Get your lawyer to make highly overt enquiries to find out if the Guardia have an internal investigation bureau.....
Tell them that you've got this data from your plotter and also that someone was filimng the whole event upto their boarding on a camorda and that you'll make the Guardia look pretty silly if you show this data and footage in court. Get your lawyer to make highly overt enquiries to find out if the Guardia have an internal investigation bureau.....
itsonlymoney
Well-Known Member
Re: A riskier strategy but might be worth the bluff
Whole thing sounds ridiculous. I agree with Mr Snelson's comments these spanniards seem to make there rules up as they go along.
This may sound like a stupid question (cos it is) but what is the worst scenario assuming you....
(a) did a runner as suggested but got caught in the act
(b) told em to sod off and refuse to pay
Ian
PS
Makes our infamous Lake wardens seem almost human /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Whole thing sounds ridiculous. I agree with Mr Snelson's comments these spanniards seem to make there rules up as they go along.
This may sound like a stupid question (cos it is) but what is the worst scenario assuming you....
(a) did a runner as suggested but got caught in the act
(b) told em to sod off and refuse to pay
Ian
PS
Makes our infamous Lake wardens seem almost human /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Magnum
RIP
Re: A riskier strategy but might be worth the bluff
[ QUOTE ]
(a) did a runner as suggested but got caught in the act
(b) told em to sod off and refuse to pay
[/ QUOTE ]
(a) Deep doodoo no doubt + (b)
(b) Magnum chained up somewhere then sold
I'm guessing here, but in any case I'm going to argue the point.
[ QUOTE ]
(a) did a runner as suggested but got caught in the act
(b) told em to sod off and refuse to pay
[/ QUOTE ]
(a) Deep doodoo no doubt + (b)
(b) Magnum chained up somewhere then sold
I'm guessing here, but in any case I'm going to argue the point.
Alistairr
Well-Known Member
Re: A riskier strategy but might be worth the bluff
Magnum, i think it all sounds fair hellish for you, and would like too wish you all the best.
I think i'd be moving the boat elsewhere after its all done and dusted.
Good luck.
Alistair.
Magnum, i think it all sounds fair hellish for you, and would like too wish you all the best.
I think i'd be moving the boat elsewhere after its all done and dusted.
Good luck.
Alistair.
tcm
...
Flash Git option
well, it's not *too* hellish in the scheme of things, really.
Perhaps the most fun option would be take along €20,000 in big 500€ notes, and if it goes as badly as predicted, produce the lot with a flourish, count off their measily 6k€, hand it over with a big smile, and then do that jutting-out your-chin movement that latin types do, which i think means Hah!
well, it's not *too* hellish in the scheme of things, really.
Perhaps the most fun option would be take along €20,000 in big 500€ notes, and if it goes as badly as predicted, produce the lot with a flourish, count off their measily 6k€, hand it over with a big smile, and then do that jutting-out your-chin movement that latin types do, which i think means Hah!
boguing
Well-Known Member
Re: Plotter
Just checked what my (old) Garmin gives when interrogated from PC. It breaks the whole track into sub tracks, on a seemingly ad hoc basis (but probably it's breaking the track whenever it loses fix) and these are then broken into 'legs' of two minutes thirty seconds. For each leg it has lat/long position, time/date, distance covered, heading and calculated average speed over that period.
Because of the two and a half minute averaging, I'm wondering if it might just help your case - slowing from 9Kts to 1 when you saw the chaps getting upset - would show as a very safe 5. IF the leg points happened to be in the right places.
On the other hand it might be very unhelpful - but worth a look?
Just checked what my (old) Garmin gives when interrogated from PC. It breaks the whole track into sub tracks, on a seemingly ad hoc basis (but probably it's breaking the track whenever it loses fix) and these are then broken into 'legs' of two minutes thirty seconds. For each leg it has lat/long position, time/date, distance covered, heading and calculated average speed over that period.
Because of the two and a half minute averaging, I'm wondering if it might just help your case - slowing from 9Kts to 1 when you saw the chaps getting upset - would show as a very safe 5. IF the leg points happened to be in the right places.
On the other hand it might be very unhelpful - but worth a look?
Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
Re: Plotter
Pity Magnum wasn't using Tsunami on a laptop as it stores all journeys until you run out of disk space or drop it overboard.
I still think you need to bluff this one out. You didn't answer me, me do you have the option to go to court?
When Jodie Kidd got stopped for speeding in Spain she got nowhere until she asked Spanish ploddo for the evidence. Once they understood her question, they gave her a quick bollocking and told her to 'Mind how you go.'
Pity Magnum wasn't using Tsunami on a laptop as it stores all journeys until you run out of disk space or drop it overboard.
I still think you need to bluff this one out. You didn't answer me, me do you have the option to go to court?
When Jodie Kidd got stopped for speeding in Spain she got nowhere until she asked Spanish ploddo for the evidence. Once they understood her question, they gave her a quick bollocking and told her to 'Mind how you go.'
DAKA
Well-Known Member
Re: Plotter
Most plotters do store a plot / track that you can set retrospectively.
Your Insurance Policy may include Legal Expenses cover and or advice.
Remember paying £4000 bail is not an admission of fault and will be repaid once/if you are found not guilty.
I would request details from them of the evasive maneuver they executed to avoid the grave danger and also point out they were not displaying any flags or other signals requesting zero wash.
I presume you have requested a fax of the court order so you know this isn't a wind up /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Good luck
Most plotters do store a plot / track that you can set retrospectively.
Your Insurance Policy may include Legal Expenses cover and or advice.
Remember paying £4000 bail is not an admission of fault and will be repaid once/if you are found not guilty.
I would request details from them of the evasive maneuver they executed to avoid the grave danger and also point out they were not displaying any flags or other signals requesting zero wash.
I presume you have requested a fax of the court order so you know this isn't a wind up /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Good luck
Col
Well-Known Member
Re: A riskier strategy but might be worth the bluff
In the same vein as others............My Navtex ICS6+ is linked by NMEA to plotter. This stores a runnning log updated roughly (from memory) every 10 or 15 mins. I only found it by accident. Maybe you have something similar?
In the same vein as others............My Navtex ICS6+ is linked by NMEA to plotter. This stores a runnning log updated roughly (from memory) every 10 or 15 mins. I only found it by accident. Maybe you have something similar?
Magnum
RIP
Re: A riskier strategy but might be worth the bluff
My Furuno kit shows track, but not speed.
My Furuno kit shows track, but not speed.
Dave_Snelson
Well-Known Member
Re: Flash Git option
I love that option - that would be my choice. But, here's the question.
Would you deliver the cash out of a black leather briefcase a la James Bond, or would you turn up in scruffy old jeans and oily tee-shirt and peel 'em off from your back pocket??
I love that option - that would be my choice. But, here's the question.
Would you deliver the cash out of a black leather briefcase a la James Bond, or would you turn up in scruffy old jeans and oily tee-shirt and peel 'em off from your back pocket??
Magnum
RIP
The bottom line
Just had a reply from solicitor. I have 2 options.
1 - Fight it. This will involve discrediting the Guardia Civil statement through evidence and witness reports. Given that there was 3 of them and 2 of us that in itself is a challenge. This will take time - probably months - and cost money. There is no guarantee of winning in fact my chances are slim. I will no doubt then be persecuted by these people as long as I stay in Palma.
2 - Pay the fine. As soon as I have the seal is removed from Magnum and I can use her again.
Option 2 looks, sadly, like the winner, especially as all of my teak is in the process of being replaced. However, I think it's time I moved on. Looks like I'll be heading for the SoF after all.
Just had a reply from solicitor. I have 2 options.
1 - Fight it. This will involve discrediting the Guardia Civil statement through evidence and witness reports. Given that there was 3 of them and 2 of us that in itself is a challenge. This will take time - probably months - and cost money. There is no guarantee of winning in fact my chances are slim. I will no doubt then be persecuted by these people as long as I stay in Palma.
2 - Pay the fine. As soon as I have the seal is removed from Magnum and I can use her again.
Option 2 looks, sadly, like the winner, especially as all of my teak is in the process of being replaced. However, I think it's time I moved on. Looks like I'll be heading for the SoF after all.
Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
Re: The bottom line
Option three is that all the Brits up anchor in sympathy.
Some hope.
Option three is that all the Brits up anchor in sympathy.
Some hope.
tcm
...
Re: Flash Git option
back pocket, definitely. Ultimate killer move would be include €20 as a tip, I think, and see if they try and gain some credibility by indignantly handing it back.
back pocket, definitely. Ultimate killer move would be include €20 as a tip, I think, and see if they try and gain some credibility by indignantly handing it back.
tcm
...
South of France speed limits
Rightyho. Just so you don't run out of countries too quickly, there's a 5 knot limit within 300 metres of the whole of the french coast, afaik. Might be 500 metres and indeed it might be 10knots but best keep to 5 to be on the safe side i suppose.
Big powerboats with giant wash-making abilities and plenty of space for all five cops/douniers to come on board are a nice morning target but their main aim is usually to fill in a form and make it clear to their boss that they haven't been swimming all morning.
There are addititonal speed restrictions for which you need local charts but for example it's a five knot limit between the iles de Lerins off Cannes, and the same applies in the Bay of Villefranche inshore of the the two big green-painted rocks on either side of the bay. There's also a 10knot limit inside an imaginary line from the Port de Cannes entry light and the furthest-out bit of the furthest island. I don't know how they allow waterski boats in the bay as well, but they do. In St tropez bay the speed limit is 25knots excpt inside the first line of yellow buoys where it's 5 knots. Usually but not always if you go inside the line of yellow buoys anywhere on the coast there's some rocks, or swimmers, or both, so best not do it.
Some pleasant French is useful, but even just "Bonjour Monsieur" (and note NOT Bonjour alone cos that what haughty french people say to tramps or others to whom they want to show their own good manners yet also their lack of respect for them by omitting the Monsieur or Madame) is a good start too.
Like the spanish, the French also can impose fines but in my exp there's less messing about so it's a spot fine of frinstance €250 for not having an original of yer registration document, and it has to be in cash.
Speedcop-wise, there are indeed speed limits in harbours but it's general seen as unacceptable to assume total lack of speed limit right up until that point, anywhere. For boats approaching harbour entrance, cops 9and many others) usually want to see fast boats well off the plane and appraoch at the same speed as would (say) a sailing boat (7knots) rather than carving a final approach up to the point at which the speed limit is stipulated.
Regardless, the fine is harsh. How well can you grovel?
Rightyho. Just so you don't run out of countries too quickly, there's a 5 knot limit within 300 metres of the whole of the french coast, afaik. Might be 500 metres and indeed it might be 10knots but best keep to 5 to be on the safe side i suppose.
Big powerboats with giant wash-making abilities and plenty of space for all five cops/douniers to come on board are a nice morning target but their main aim is usually to fill in a form and make it clear to their boss that they haven't been swimming all morning.
There are addititonal speed restrictions for which you need local charts but for example it's a five knot limit between the iles de Lerins off Cannes, and the same applies in the Bay of Villefranche inshore of the the two big green-painted rocks on either side of the bay. There's also a 10knot limit inside an imaginary line from the Port de Cannes entry light and the furthest-out bit of the furthest island. I don't know how they allow waterski boats in the bay as well, but they do. In St tropez bay the speed limit is 25knots excpt inside the first line of yellow buoys where it's 5 knots. Usually but not always if you go inside the line of yellow buoys anywhere on the coast there's some rocks, or swimmers, or both, so best not do it.
Some pleasant French is useful, but even just "Bonjour Monsieur" (and note NOT Bonjour alone cos that what haughty french people say to tramps or others to whom they want to show their own good manners yet also their lack of respect for them by omitting the Monsieur or Madame) is a good start too.
Like the spanish, the French also can impose fines but in my exp there's less messing about so it's a spot fine of frinstance €250 for not having an original of yer registration document, and it has to be in cash.
Speedcop-wise, there are indeed speed limits in harbours but it's general seen as unacceptable to assume total lack of speed limit right up until that point, anywhere. For boats approaching harbour entrance, cops 9and many others) usually want to see fast boats well off the plane and appraoch at the same speed as would (say) a sailing boat (7knots) rather than carving a final approach up to the point at which the speed limit is stipulated.
Regardless, the fine is harsh. How well can you grovel?
Nauti Fox
Well-Known Member
Re: The bottom line
Really sorry to hear all this, it must leave a bad taste after all your efforts. It doesn't look like you can do very much about this and I hope you can still enjoy the Med.
Really sorry to hear all this, it must leave a bad taste after all your efforts. It doesn't look like you can do very much about this and I hope you can still enjoy the Med.
EME
Well-Known Member
Re: South of France speed limits - In Practice
My experience with posters hereabouts is that they tend to come off the plane several hundred metres before any speed restriction or exclusion zone in the South of France - and are gently moving at speed restriction zone speeds with hundreds of metres to go to the limit.
Not suggesting that you are all 'Goody-2-Shoes' but it does seem to be 'de rigeur' to treat those areas as more than absolute limits and these areas are courteously extended in the interest of all. Conversely ( by observation ) some of the worst 'speed' behaviour also seems to come from Brit-flagged boats , ( I recall a Sunseeker in La Garoupe last season).
When you see the (frequently reported in the local media) stats for fines/'ASBOs' in the Cannes - Monaco area, the most common areas where infringements take place are:-
Iles des Lerins
Bay of Cannes
Villefranche
and Monaco approaches.
I have no idea about St Trop as the local press don't report that here.
My experience with posters hereabouts is that they tend to come off the plane several hundred metres before any speed restriction or exclusion zone in the South of France - and are gently moving at speed restriction zone speeds with hundreds of metres to go to the limit.
Not suggesting that you are all 'Goody-2-Shoes' but it does seem to be 'de rigeur' to treat those areas as more than absolute limits and these areas are courteously extended in the interest of all. Conversely ( by observation ) some of the worst 'speed' behaviour also seems to come from Brit-flagged boats , ( I recall a Sunseeker in La Garoupe last season).
When you see the (frequently reported in the local media) stats for fines/'ASBOs' in the Cannes - Monaco area, the most common areas where infringements take place are:-
Iles des Lerins
Bay of Cannes
Villefranche
and Monaco approaches.
I have no idea about St Trop as the local press don't report that here.