Question: Which would you choose and why?

The sloop

the Main would have to be fully battened and the Genoa on a furler.
One good reason why is that I've just got a quote for a new cruising chute and am fairly sure that with the impoverished lecturers pay on which I barely survive - I wouldn't like to be forking out for new (and extra) sails for a ketch or a cutter.
A ketch and a cutter that needed re-rigging would also cost more so all in all I'm keen to keep my sailing costs to affordable levels - which is why, I suppose, I have the boat I have and not a 35 or 40 footer.

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Claymore
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Nauticats are built by Siltala yachts in Turku, Finland so in that sense, but that sense only (I think) they are related to Nautor.

Cracking boats. They're well designed and built, seaworthy and, before they started mucking about with the rig, good looking. Originally designed as a ketch, so I'd stick with that.

Personally I don't reckon you need to look any further.

No, I'm not a shareholder, just an admirer!

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Saw the 331 at SIBS and SWMBO & I both liked it, except, galley was too small, especially for liveaboard, and aft cabin had twin berths. Bit disappointed at the number of motorsailers on show(2) and wouldn't even consider the Fisher as an option. (Ugly-IMHO)
At the moment we are going through options for the future. 2 kids should be in UNI in 2 years and although we intend moving to the US(SWMBO's home country) eventually, she fancies a few years perhaps in the med.
We are fairly new to boating in general and have a lot to learn. SWMBO did some dinghy/F15 sailing when she was younger and myself none.
Options to get out of the Broads and spread our wings are along the lines of......
Stay river/coastal with trips across North Sea/Channel etc........Broom
France/Med - sports boat
Med & Cruising - Motorsailer(this one has most practicality re fuel/freedom etc.

Plus has the looks....We like classy looking boats.

Intend we both do Dayskipper between now and next summer and charter in the med to see if sailing really is the option. We already have a 25 ft motor cruiser on the Broads which is a lovely little 40 year old.

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I read somewhere the other day that they are business linked with Nauter these days. Also I have seen them advertised from Australia to the West Coast of the USA.
Following on from these answers, I have another I will ask another in due course.

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Could well be; my knowledge is way out of date. Nautor or not they are, indeed, built like a brick whotsit by people who understand what bad weather really means.

As a spotty teenager, I worked at the LBS for the original UK Nauticat importers (hence my admiration) and can still remember the sensation that was generated by the first public appearance of the N33 in 1971. The purchase price was under £10K including VAT which, even in those days, was a steal for a well equipped and founded motorsailor. I think it was about a grand extra if you wanted a teak, rather than mahogany wheehouse.

The Siltala brothers came over for the show, accompanied by lots of Finnish vodka. I can still remember the hangover...............

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Schooner rig if it's a wishbone rig
Otherwise Ketch is first choice
Sloop last choice = only 2 sails with a large (potentially difficult to handle) mainsaila and Genoa.. not a flexible rig bar reefing and hanking on a smaller Jib..

Both Schooner and Ketch have more sails but smaller = ease of handling and heavy weather adaptability.. you can rig as many or as few sails as you want and balance the boat with different sails.. under heavy weather they may just have a foresail and a mizzen (Ketch)

Schooner is a complex option as there are many varieties of rig.. and combination rigs.. actually a whole book on rigs could be dedicated to Schooners (and probably has!) They are the most beautiful rigs definately!

Schooners do not perform well unless well off the wind.. unless they are Wishbone rigged
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.. where there is a boom that is diagonal between the masts.. hence longer luff (leading) edge to the sail. They can be a bit racey tho' for an bluewater cruiser.. Schooners were developed in the Eastern Seaboard States to run up and down the coast mainly with Cod from the Grand Banks.

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Re: Ocean 60?

I little bird tells me that Dark Horse, the Lloyds Bank Ocean 60 Schooner, is up for sale at the moment.

Might suit you Ken if you find the Twister too wet.

Martin

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Sail adds a new dimension. Motoring all the time, IMHO, would become boring and expensive and intrinsically less safe. What happens when the motor cuts out in a blow?

Personally I like the Fisher lines and I think I would prefer to be in one in really bad weather. The flared bow provides a lot of protection. However it's not so good if you want to helm outside unless you go to the Fisher 46.

Do not underestimate the Med. IMO it's more dangerous than the seas around our coasts. Bad weather comes very quickly and not always with warning. I remember being holed up in Bonifaccio when it blew 80knts outside. Even inside the marina the two outside pontoons were torn away and finally only held because the big boats had anchors down as well. However not to be too gloomy you normally have warnings.

If you were looking at Nauticats you might also consider the 35 or the 39 which have a more modern sailing shape.

John




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Schooner!!!! Buy the schooner!! Please, so I can come and sail her, failing that the ketch, think of a nice awning over the mizzen boom, sitting with gin and tonic watching the sun go down!! Go on! Go on! go on! you know it makes sense.

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We arent quite that configuration- we are 3/4 rigged with jumpers and so as sails we have

102% blade jib on furler- very close winded, underpowered below 12 knots

Staysail, on furler. High cut, doesnt trap water, good vis.

Code 0 : on free flying furler. HUGE - overpowered upwind at 13 knots, good to 75 degrees

and then a selection of kites Asymetric furling, asymmetric with snuffer and a big symmetric.

The main is big, has two deep single ended reefing system, fully battened on Frederiksen cars. Let the halyard goe from the top, and the boat shakes ass the sail lands on boom. Yes we have lazyjacks, they work really well, and have never had them tangle with anything.

Oh, and two big Andersen 66 electric winches that do all the hard work!


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Spent plenty of years working on Italian rigs in the Med and am aware of just how rough it can get. 3 simultaneous waterspouts in one day for 3 hours and eventually one hit us. Like all hell being let loose. Huge seas. We were hung off & btotally battened down.

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Nauticats are wonderful boats, my choice after the Fisher. We'll have a chat about sailplans when we get together weekend after next. My bruv is very, very knowledgeable, but wont come on here, thinks it's all bollox! and expensive in an internet cafe!! He's right, has more things to do, now he's retired.

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Sounds very close to my ideal rig/wardrobe. Would you envisage problems with an ovelapping jib (say 120%)?

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It would have to be the ketch for me, just looks right! As you are aware, when something in engineering looks right, it often is, thats the case with this boat. IMHO, by the way, I quite like the after berth that way, once you get your chosen partner/victim in the berth, she has to climb over you to get out! sneaky these Finnish eh!

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I think what makes it tricky is the ratio of sail foot to 'space' between forestay and inner forestay. Our 'space' is a about 8 feet, and the LP of the big jib is about 19 feet, so we have quite a bundle of sail, but it never snags. What we do have (which I havent often seen elsewhere) is a cover that zips over the furled staysail, from tack to clew, and is lashed to the clew of the furled staysail. This serves two purposes - firstly it protects the bottom of the furled staysail from chafe, but it also gives a slightly smoother surface for the jib and its sheets. Weve never had any difficulty getting the jib past the staysail, but it is significantly smaller than a 120%.

When we race we do have the bowman run the clew round in very light weather - they will also skirt the jib over the guardrails as it comes home. In cruising mode we just leave it to it's own devices!

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That's exactly how I felt when I first saw it. Also with awning and cabin sunroof. In/Out helming. Good galley & aft cabin. Two heads with showers, aft cabin ensuite. Only drawback someone mentioned was having teak decks in the heat.

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Re: photos

that looks to me like a staysail schooner, that's a horse of another colour. the staysail is easier to handle than a normal foresail but you lose a lot of area. you can fill in the gap with a fisherman/ quad but they are nasty things to handle when the wind rises.

i have sailed a bermudian schooner (65 ft) and was surprised to find that the main set ok to windward and provided real power, unlike most ketch mizzens. my only expereince of ketches was on an atlantic crossing. the mizzen had to be taken in if the wind was ahead, behind or strong. with a soldier's wind over the quarter it was great. we carried a mizzen staysail which i was really looking forward to using but the conditions were never right in 3000 miles of sailing! i too have heard that no-one buys another ketch.

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Re: photos

Looks like a ketch to me and thats what it's advertised as, but as I said at the beginning, what do I know.
Aside from that, I hope I only ever have to buy the one......./forums/images/icons/wink.gif

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