Question for the med-ites

[benjenbav]

Do swinging moorings exist?

I don't mean just for the odd kalamari boat but for leisure users on a commercial or club-run basis, like they do in the UK.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Not that I know of. I have seen swinging moorings in the Balearics, Sardinia and Croatia but by and large they are for short term visitors only and usually installed for environmental reasons such as protection of seaweed or something equally baffling. In the Balearics and Sardinia, they tend to managed by local govt or national park authorities. In Croatia, some moorings are managed by national park authorities but many others are managed by private organisations such as restaurants or even franchised individuals.
Apart from the well known Med hotspots, its possible to find relatively cheap marina berths in many areas, particularly since the recession hit, so I guess there isn't much of a demand for long term swinging moorings such as there is in the UK

 

[benjenbav]

Thanks.That's what I thought. Seems odd to me given that it's not just cost but a different sort of experience.

Mebbe I'll set up the St Tropez English Association of Motor Yachts (STEAMY). Drop a few crushed Toyotas on the seabed and sell the moorings. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[rustybarge]

Thanks.That's what I thought. Seems odd to me given that it's not just cost but a different sort of experience.

Mebbe I'll set up the St Tropez English Association of Motor Yachts (STEAMY). Drop a few crushed Toyotas on the seabed and sell the moorings. What could possibly go wrong?

The local 'talent' on the coast now extends up to 20-30 miles inland; a friend of my sis was asked for protection money when he opened a new restaurant in Grasse. Luckily he hadn't signed the lease, and only lost 3 months deposit; he Did a very quick exit.

any business activity of any sort has too pay: no exceptions.

 

[benjenbav]

The local 'talent' on the coast now extends up to 20-30 miles inland; a friend of my sis was asked for protection money when he opened a new restaurant in Grasse. Luckily he hadn't signed the lease, and only lost 3 months deposit; he Did a very quick exit.

any business activity of any sort has too pay: no exceptions.

But, apart from a stilleto in the short ribs, do you see any downsides?

 

[rustybarge]

But, apart from a stilleto in the short ribs, do you see any downsides?

..none!
that's why everything on the coast is so expensive, from taxis to bubbly.

 

[EME]

The local 'talent' on the coast now extends up to 20-30 miles inland; a friend of my sis was asked for protection money when he opened a new restaurant in Grasse. Luckily he hadn't signed the lease, and only lost 3 months deposit; he Did a very quick exit.

any business activity of any sort has too pay: no exceptions.

Sorry, can't speak for your sister's friend's experience but the generalisation is BS. Yes, the French do catch the unworldly, ignorant, stupid, unwary and the lifestyle dreamers -- bit like living anywhere in the UK really -- but it really isn't any worse ime than any prime real estate location in the UK. Does help if you have a smattering of the language or at least are prepared to try.

I can't think of any commercial swinging moorings but more than a few liveaboards (and otherwise) on the Cote d'Azur who just 'sling a hook', no idea what some might connect to! . Seems to be accepted ????

 

[jfm]

Generally no BJB. I think it's down to geography rather than any principled objection to swinging though. I can hardly think of anywhere in Med that has wide rivery shaped Hamble/Lymington-esque spaces with lots of otherwise slightly useless shallow water at the sides and a deep channel down the middle (partly due to lack of tidal flow) and with nearby landing places to stack up clapped out Yaks/Oppies/Recrests for use as tenders (such frontline land being worth multiple millions per acre).

I said "hardly" because I think Mahon might be the exception. I'm not 100% sure but I think there are a few swinging moorings on north side - certainly there are non-marina moorings there. Mahon does, unusually, have the geographic features that make swinging mooring plausible

 

[duncan99210]

In general, where conditions are suitable for moorings (ie relatively shallow water with little slope to the bottom and no through traffic) then you'll either find moorings or anchorages. Most of the small coves on the northern Med coast of Spain for example are full of them. However, there is a tendency towards smaller boats and therefore the ground tackle and spacing is such that most will not accommodate anything much above 7 - 8 metres.

They tend not to be year round fixtures either, as they are not as well protected as a winding estuary, being open to the sea on at least one side. The buoys are often removed during the winter and replaced at the start of the season.

Further east, moorings are not as common, partly due to geography it mainly due to lack of demand. Most folks keep their boats in marinas during the off season and anchor during the summer or use town quays or marinas. If the local economies ever recover, the I'd expect an expansion in marinas rather than mooring buoys as this fits in with the expectations of the boating folks in that part of the world.

 

[blueglass]

Several locations on the south of France with swinging moorings we have used but these are visitor moorings not suitable for long term tenure.

 

[benjenbav]

Generally no BJB. I think it's down to geography rather than any principled objection to swinging though. I can hardly think of anywhere in Med that has wide rivery shaped Hamble/Lymington-esque spaces with lots of otherwise slightly useless shallow water at the sides and a deep channel down the middle (partly due to lack of tidal flow) and with nearby landing places to stack up clapped out Yaks/Oppies/Recrests for use as tenders (such frontline land being worth multiple millions per acre).

I think that must be right. Just to take an example, the river that flows through St Max into the top end of the Golfe de St Trop does have some boat activity but the only useable bit is a short creek, heavily developed on either side. It's odd because, in seriousness I was thinking that the lack of tide would make swinging moorings easier whereas it may be that that phenomenon has prevented the emergence of conditions suitable.

Plus, at least in France, civic spending to create and then monetise relatively compact areas for marina use.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Generally no BJB. I think it's down to geography rather than any principled objection to swinging though. I can hardly think of anywhere in Med that has wide rivery shaped Hamble/Lymington-esque spaces with lots of otherwise slightly useless shallow water at the sides and a deep channel down the middle (partly due to lack of tidal flow) and with nearby landing places to stack up clapped out Yaks/Oppies/Recrests for use as tenders (such frontline land being worth multiple millions per acre).

Actually the Croatian coastline has hundreds of little creeks and backwaters which would be eminently suitable for swinging moorings but you just don't see them there except as I said before as short term visitor moorings. In the Med, I think its the lack of tide as much as anything else which means that permanent swinging moorings aren't needed. With no tide, you don't need expensive floating pontoons and ramps to tie a boat to the land. Why bother with a swinging mooring and all the faff of getting to it when you can just lob a lump of concrete into the sea to hold the bow and tie the stern to the land?

 

[wakeup]

BJB, I don't know what you are looking for in particular, but I have been recently sizing up med berths in La Rague and Port Vauban and I have been really quite surprised by the sudden price drop and number of berths now available for sale. I've been looking at 8x3m or 10x3m berths which were routinely advertised at €50k to €70k. All of a sudden there seems to be a plethora of 8x3m available at €25k and 10x3m circa €50k, and that is before a negotiation discussion. It seems as though the market for smaller 10m< berths has fallen on its arse in the SoF. I can point you at a few if you are interested.

 

[benjenbav]

BJB, I don't know what you are looking for in particular, but I have been recently sizing up med berths in La Rague and Port Vauban and have been really quite surprised by the sudden price drop and number of berths now available for sale. I've been looking at 8x3m or 10x3m berths which were routinely advertised at €50k to €70k. All of a sudden there seams to be a plethora of 8x3m available at €25k and 10x3m circa €50k, and that is before a negotiation discussion. It seems as though the market for smaller 10m< berths has fallen on its arse in the SoF. I can point you at a few if you are interested.

Thanks wakeup, I am currently boatless and with one house too many in SoF. The original question was just something which went through what's left of my mind and I thought I'd ask on here.

On the other hand...mebbe a boat in the med would reignite an interest in the house.

Hmm. Have to give it some thought

 

[wakeup]

Snap, I have a villa there too and I am thinking of either moving my boat down there to re-ignite interest in house and more of a compelling reason to be there more often in 2015 and re-ignite my interest in boating down there. Or I might sell boat here and buy a new one down there.

 

[Portofino]

Snap too -we started with a berth for rental income -this worked for 2-3 years until we received a letter from the Capataniere " Dear Mr and Mrs ***** when are you bringing your boat to your berth ,we politely remind you of regulation XYZ forbidding having a tentants over x months "
3week later an impulse buy of a Sunseeker got me into boats in the SOF .
A couple years later walking through Vieux Antibes -we saw a run down property -another impulse buy follows along with renovation project - .it's next door to the Roman watch tower ,-
So now we have a " done up property "in Antibes that we hardly use -wehave put some brass in € land property .
We spend most nights on the boat in La Napoule .
Last Y got a bigger berth ( part ex my original ) - and sold the Sunseeker within 3weeks of putting it on the mkt -then bought a bigger boat to fill the new berth.
Man maths takes over for every € " lost " with the boaty side another € appreciates on the property side ?
Plastic depreciates - bricks ( stones in vieux Antibes ) Mortor appreciates
Or you could put it in a bank - in Switzerland they have negative interest rates -so watch if shrink .
The Boat is the real reason why we are there .

 

[wakeup]

Hi P,

Interestingly La Napoule berth asking prices seem to be asking full price a la 2013? One I made an offer on last december told me that they would easily achieve a sale at that price and I noticed this December it is still for sale. I wonder why La Napoule seems insulated from the price crash that seems to be unfolding on many berths in SoF at the moment.

 

[Portofino]

Hi P,

Interestingly La Napoule berth asking prices seem to be asking full price a la 2013? One I made an offer on last december told me that they would easily achieve a sale at that price and I noticed this December it is still for sale. I wonder why La Napoule seems insulated from the price crash that seems to be unfolding on many berths in SoF at the moment.

Well spotted
1-lease was exetended to 2024 ( compared to port Vaubans and others standard 2019 expire ) -few years back we developed an event area and Mayor gave us extra 5 Y
2- just got approval for another 5 y extension taking it to 2029 -we developing a catamaran renting centre in the public port .Mayor has approved its all been sent to Paris for rubber stamp .
Fruit of about 3 years work - so folks now hold out for more
None fiscal subjective reasons -easy parking and free to berth holder s -CCTV - night watchmen , cheap fuel ,private airport nearby -handy for some?

 

[wakeup]

Did you have to pay for the lease extensions?

 

[Portofino]

Did you have to pay for the lease extensions?

The first one was a 50 /50 by way of a little extra pro-rata / shares -added on the annual fees for the remaining term
Other 1/2 was a bank loan -all voted on @ AGM .First cost 2M €
There are 900 shareholders
Recent extension -no its a deal between us to allow Mayor to develop "his " catamaran rental ideal .
We ( that's the club will fund the jetty re-organisation out of the kitty .
No plans for any real € having to be chipped in by berth holders for this one.
The Potential 2029 expiration date how ever it's arrived at is why berth holders who are thinking of selling can wait to achieve a higher price .
I think it will be stamped anytime soon -They are planning on starting the build end of Jan ready to go with the catamaran idea for this season .
Pop down next few days to see the plans @ Capitaneries and speak to Homeport Bart van Heuval