Question about trident and Achilles 24

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steve yates

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Firstly, does the triple keel trident dry out on the level in hard sand?
But mainly, what's the main differences between them?
Does one have better headroom or longer bunks than the other?
Which would be a better cruiser and give a dryer sail.
Which is the better offshore boat?
Which one would you rather sail, and which one would you rather spend a week in? :)
Oh yes, does either have an anchor well?
 
never been aboard an Achilles -

Tridents have light and airy main cabins which are generally more pleasant than some boats of similar size -

dry out well - and sail well -

robust build as well...
 
Achilles has sitting headroom and good long bunks. It is very seaworthy, quite happy offshore. They are excellent sailors. They have chain lockers with on-deck anchor stowage. The later ones had anchor locker lids. I don't know if they're big enough for anchor stowage. There is a triple-keel version which presumably will dry out level, but I'm not certain of that.
 
Either will list slightly because the bilge keels are slightly shorter, plus they will probably sink more in softer ground. Trident is more cruiser orientated with pretensions to be able to spend more time on board - more headroom more general space. Achilles is much more performance orientated, not suitable for living aboard for any length of time unless you are a hair shirted masochist.

There are many more suitable boats for your use in that size/price range, and infinitely better if you go up a size and a few more bob in purchase price.
 
We have a fin keel A24. I understand that there is little or no performance difference between the fin, triple, or bilge keel versions. Our boat is great to sail, handles like a dinghy and feels completely secure. Achilles 24s have crossed the Atlantic and even got as far as New Zealand.

The downside of the Achilles is the headroom; 4'6" in the cabin. We've spent up to ten days aboard, quite happily, still talking to each other! The forepeak is a cosy double, 6' long and about the same width, tapering at the bow, obviously. The heads (chemical bucket in our case, some have proper sea toilets) is however in the forepeak under the bunk. Two burner cooker can be fitted, and a sink.

The bunks in the cabin are a decent length going into trotter boxes. Plenty of stowage including a large (for size of boat) lazarette. Usually an outboard well in the cockpit although some have inboard engines.

There is a healthy owners group in Flickr - a photo sharing site but search for Achilles in "Groups" and you'll find a wealth of information.

I have only sailed in a Trident once, in the late 70s (!) so can't really compare, but you'll have a great time owning an Achilles.
 
Currently I have a bradwell 18, it had a portapotti under the forepeak which I threw out, don't want a boy under my bed. I prefer just a bucket.
I can't actually sit upright on the bunks, and she has no table.
Her passage planning speed is roughly 3 knots.
She dries fine in mud but lists about 30 degrees in sand. Bearable but would rather sleep level.
She only sleeps 2 realistically.

I'm looking for a bigger boat, with liveable space below for a couple of weeks, can sleep at least three, preferably 4.
Will be faster, but not a tippy racer, I would like passage planning speeds of 4 or 5 knots and to dry out level.
I'm looking for something bigger and comfier below,
 
steve yates said:
Currently I have a bradwell 18,


I'm looking for a bigger boat, with liveable space below for a couple of weeks, can sleep at least three, preferably 4.
Will be faster, but not a tippy racer, I would like passage planning speeds of 4 or 5 knots and to dry out level.
I'm looking for something bigger and comfier below,
Click to expand...

You are describing a Centaur ............ perhaps youd not plan a passage speed of 5 knots though
 
Consider a Jaguar 24. Standing headroom. Enclosed heads. Open plan cabin that is very cosy. Outboard in a well. Anchor locker with lid (later models).

But an achilles 24 made it to the arctic circle. See mingming 2 on youtube.
 
There is just such a huge choice as has been passed onto you many times. Just get out there and look at what is for sale, not try and pursue specific models. Around 24-26'. What you describe is exactly what the market wanted new in 1960-1980 hence the huge choice. While it is useful to get others' experiences, when did you ever hear anybody say their boat was rubbish? Might say as I suggest what you are looking at is not suitable (because it does not meet your declared requirements) but that does not mean they are bad boats for the purpose they were designed.

As ever condition and usability are top of the list at this end of the market.
 
Very true tranona, and I am out looking. That invariably leads to questions, which I can get answers from on here when they occur rather than waiting to see a similar boat. I haven't had a chance to see either yet so wanted to know from users what the difference was between them, they seem similar to me.
It's funny, on paper the centaur sounds ideal, I've only been on two, but I don't get the impression of space folk talk about. I found them a bit hemmed in compared to other boats I've viewed. Plus they are too dear for my budget unless I find a real bargain. I will only be spending 2.5-3k, but am in no desperate hurry, and still have a boat to sell. I would go to 5 but only for a real steal, a big boat reengineer and ready to sail.
I know many folk will say I need to up the budget. That's not going to happen while I am still paying maintenance for my kids and putting them through uni.
And in all honesty, I the old boats I am looking at are liabilities, not assets.. Difficult to resell, costing money to moor and maintain. I will only pay that much. ecause it's what I have, but also because I think when I come to sell it on, I will only get that sort of money for it, and if it doesn't sell, I can shift it on at a fraction of the price and only take a hit of 1-2 k.
 
steve yates said:
It's funny, on paper the centaur sounds ideal, I've only been on two, but I don't get the impression of space folk talk about. I found them a bit hemmed in compared to other boats I've viewed
Click to expand...

If you found the Centaur to be too small, then I don't think the Trident 24 will suit you. We have owned both and when we moved up to a Centaur from the Trident 24, it felt like a huge increase in space and comfort aboard. Both good boats though depending on your budget. Our triple bilge keel Trident did dry out almost completely level in soft mud.
 
Not too small per se, just not obviously great on space as its rep implies. I found a mirage 26 a lot better, even a little hunter horizon 23 seemed more open and airy inside :)

I should probably add, my boat will be used for extended cruising, so anything from 3 day trips to 2 weeks will be regular, sometime longer. She will not be used for daysails or racing round the cans, she is an out and out cruiser.
 
Having been looking for the same type of boatI came o the conclusion that the Trident 24 was a good lttle boat except the inboard engine took up too much space.An outboard version wuld be ok and save all that interior space and flumoxing about with an inboard in a confined area.
 
Hi, got a trident last year and really pleased with her, she does dry out upright and has a really good association you should achieve that speed without too many problems, on the downside 4 of you for several weeks at a time would be a bit to cosy unless you all got on very well, we did 3 to Lymington for one night and whilst it was great fun with everybody's kit it was enough, they are built really well, for your budget you should get something reasonable but may need a bit of elbow grease, I'm on the south coast, you are more than welcome to come and have a look round her or come for a sail in a month or so when she is back, there are loads of info and measurements on the TOA... Friend of mine had an achilles and has got a westerly for extra headroom at the sacrifice of performance but at his age now he wants a bit more comfort over performance, think you will be lucky to get a centaur within budget that doesn't need a lot of work, let me know if you want to pop down, entirely up you won't be offended if you don't or can't and wish you good luck in your search, keep us all posted
 
steve yates said:
It's funny, on paper the Centaur sounds ideal, I've only been on two, but I don't get the impression of space folk talk about.
Click to expand...

I know just what you mean, Steve. I look at yachts moored, ashore, and I positively haunt Apollo Duck, and always return rather reluctantly to the ever-available elderly Centaur, which ought to be God's gift to hard-up yachtsmen...but I don't really want one.

I'm not sure why. I actually like the looks, after 40 years' habituation...and Dylan Winter's close reportage hasn't hurt its reputation.

Conversely I still really like the Achilles 24, despite the rabbit-hutch accommodation.

I spent an hour looking over an appealingly-priced Corribee last year, before realising I couldn't live with the doll's house headroom, however pretty the boat is and however affordable. And I think I'll reach the same conclusion about the Achilles 24.

My kind of cruising is inshore, and my sailing will be all-season, so if cold weather will prohibit comfortable use, I just won't buy. That really narrows the field of suitable designs, and raises the prices asked even for poor examples...and whatever I look at, I end up comparing them with the honest Centaur which does so much, so well...but somehow I still don't much want one.

I guess you'd have to try that week on board, to make a decision you won't regret. In such circumstances, particularly with others aboard, I think the Centaur's vertical space is the winning feature even if that height reduces the perception of relative cabin width.
 
Telstarr said:
If you found the Centaur to be too small, then I don't think the Trident 24 will suit you. We have owned both and when we moved up to a Centaur from the Trident 24, it felt like a huge increase in space and comfort aboard. Both good boats though depending on your budget. Our triple bilge keel Trident did dry out almost completely level in soft mud.
Click to expand...
Agreed - effectively a Centaur feels almost twice as big an interior as either an Achilles 24 or a Trident 24. Achilles probably fastest, Centaur next then the Trident.
 
If you really think the accommodation in a 26' Centaur is too small, you just aren't going to find what you want in anything smaller. The Achilles is larger than the Bradwell, the Trident slightly more spacious. You might try the 23' Newbridge, but a small boat is small.
 
Norm, you misunderstand me, I don't think it is too small. I just don't think it is as big as it's Rep. It's become a bit of an urban myth, the most space you can get on a 26ft boat.
I just don't think that's true, from my limited impressions. Sure it may be more than the Achilles and trident, it has extra length and height after all, but other 26 footers seem more spacious, and the 25 ft jaguar is definitely much more spacious!
In truth, after my bradwell, anything will be an improvement in living space :)
 
We had an Achilles, triple keel, for 3 years. Renovated from run down to a load of fun for not too much money.

Sailed it from the Bristol Channel to the west of Scotland and back one summer. Met all sorts of fruits on the way. Usually the conversation went along the lines... "that's an Achilles isn't it?" "yes" " we had one of those before we got a ******* [insert any other larger boat name, or divorced, here]

Outboard in the well in the cockpit worked well for us. Make sure you have or can make a cover for the hole.

Sails well and always felt safe, even when I wasn't.

Oh yes, the accommodation. You can put boards between the two single bunks and have some sort of a double berth. But!
You can do everything from your berth, Take it in turns to dress and learn to put your trousers on whilst sitting down.

We had a porta potty but it was a pain and generally when a certain party was not on board we used a bucket. Just brief the crew on which bucket is which! Red or blue, with a suitable acronym.

There is no head room to speak of, but they are such great boats to sail. You are always near the action. Get good waterproofs and train your crew on reefing the main. And master 'one pot' cooking.
 
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