Qualified Or Not, What Would You Do?

[firstspirit]

To all and sundry I place a very serious question. Your opinion is valuable to me, so please share it! TA!

Picture the scene. you and your crew are in a 'safe' UK marina berth. The crew have given in to general fatigue and retired for the evening. You, however have decide to sit up with the first mate watching a favourite video. It's a stinker of a night, sleeting and very cold outside.

Suddenly there is an almight roar within your ship. Everything around shudders violently, loose materials are thrown sideways. Lots of banging and clumping eminates from beneath your vessel and then KABOOM, one last deafening bang! At least one of your crew is thrown out of their bunk. When you try to stand up you realize that the doorways are well leaning over!. Further investigation reveals the sickening truth. YOUR pride and joy has stopped 'floating' AND fallen over very hard to one side.

Now, please tell me, what would YOU do?

 

[Peterduck]

Obviously everyone on board will be awake, so get them into warm clothing, including foul weather gear if time allows, and get them topside to evaluate the nature of the problem and ready to abandon ship.

 

[firstspirit]

Thank you Peterduck for your response,

I was hoping I could steer your thoughts further down the line. Who would you hold responsible for thiis terrifying incident and what would you do about it?

Regards,

Firstspirit

 

[heerenleed]

I would raise the HM and ask if by any chance the berth I had been given was already taken by a submarine.
Also, I would raise the submarine and ask if I had taken his berth. If so, I would clear out at once, that is, if the sub would dive for a minute to let me go.

But then, perhaps with the high marina prices in the UK, we might also try and share the berth, if it was deep enough, that is..

happy sailing and mind where you spend your nights...

Peter a/b SV Heerenleed, Steenbergen, Netherlands

 

[firstspirit]

Heerenleed,

before you go. tell me who who you think is responsible for the incident described.....please. I only want your opinion, it does matter, drop us your thoughts.

Regards,

Forstspirit.

 

[heerenleed]

Honestly, I would not really know..
In my country, we do not have very large tidal ranges, AND we do not have rocky seabeds. So in the unlikely case we would be hitting the ground in a marina, it would me soft mud and not really alarming.

Having said that, I think we would be very much focussed on large tidal ranges when traveling abroad, like in Brittany or the Channel Islands. Therefore I think (mind you I think, but I do not really know) that we would double check the echo sounder and do our sums after having moored. But as you say, you were all tired, and perhaps in pretty familiar waters, so I can imagine you relied on the HM's knowledge concerning the depth on the spot that was given to you.

I'm afraid that, although morally the HM is certainly to blame, legally it is probably the skippers responsibility to check depths and tides.



Peter a/b SV Heerenleed, Steenbergen, Netherlands

 

[Mirelle]

I don\'t really know....

To be honest I have never looked at a marina's Conditions of Use. I suspect that there may be a get out clause.

BUT.....in that case, the question must be asked - were the conditions of use brought to your attention before you contracted for the berth?

If NOT, then there IS a possiblility, but only a possibility, that the marina might be liable for failure to provide a safe berth - there is an abundance of law to the effect that an implied term of the use of a berth is that the berth shall be "safe" which term most certainly includes remaining safely afloat!

 

[firstspirit]

Thank you Heerenleed for your reply.

I must congratulate you on being the first poster, on all forums, to mention morality in your reply.

In the silent mind of each of us there lurks a spirit that KNOWS right from wrong. But we decide to ignore this spirit at our peril. Individually we may put up with our own lack of action, but collectively, across the globe, this all adds up to alot of inaction when things appear to be out of our control. You actually demonstrate my point in your reply. You already, are prepared for the LAW, which you know is wrong, to not put things right for this skipper and crew.

Laws are made and passed by people. Laws are meant to protect us, they should NEVER protect the morally guilty.

Sermon Finished!

Your comments about marinas being silted is fine so long as you know that the company has carried out a full survey of the bed, before or since they began their commercial enterprise. This marina, like many, many others in the UK are occupying former industrial docks and docklands. Who knows for sure what is on the floor under each vessel. There should be records, or so you would think, but that takes effort, time and money.

Finally, DUTY OF CARE is a principal of law that is supposed to protect people from dodgy dealers or operators, that is likely to be the acid test if this case comes to court.

I am consoled by your introduction of morality into this debate, lets see other posters wake and listen to that silent inner Spirit!

Regards,

Firstspirit.

 

[firstspirit]

Re: I don\'t really know....

Mirelle,

Thank you for your posting.

This vessel skipper and first mate went to extraordinary lengths to be satisfied that the marina in question would be a suitable place in which to berth.

To this effect and after much debate with the marina operator, (written questions and answers) the marina operator expressly states, that there would be no problem berthing this vessel in their marina.

How exactly would you define, 'NO PROBLEMS'? .....Letting your boat fall over...?

Please keep thinking on this one, and keep posting.

Many regards,

Firstspirit.

 

[juddsail]

Re: I don\'t really know....

Dear Sir,

did `extroadinary lengths' include turning your depthsounder on and checking your tide charts?

Have I missed something?

J