Q flag

[Roberto]

What is the correct use of the yellow Q flag when entering a foreign port ?

I see a lot of conflicting opinions, not that I'd lose my sleep but just out of interest is there any conventional or "legal" way of using it ?


Should it be hoisted alone, without the courtesy flag, and replaced by the courtesy flag once one has cleared customs, etc ?

Should it be hoisted together with the courtesy flag ?
Above? Below?


Should it be hoisted alone to port, together with the courtesy flag to starboard ?


?

thanks

 

[mikehibb]

Just did a google search and found this:

"The yellow Q flag should be flown instead of the courtesy ensign until the yacht is properly cleared by customs and immigration, after which the Q flag is replaced by the courtesy flag."

Hope that helps.

from here:

http://www.sailingissues.com/flags-etiquette.html

 

[SimonJ]

Q flag & courtesy ensign

Just did a google search and found this:

"The yellow Q flag should be flown instead of the courtesy ensign until the yacht is properly cleared by customs and immigration, after which the Q flag is replaced by the courtesy flag."

Hope that helps.

from here:

http://www.sailingissues.com/flags-etiquette.html

The information such as that given on this (US?) website is rapidly being accepted as being correct but I believe it to be wrong - othere things stated there are not strictly correct either. But US boats do play it that way following that kind of guidance. Hence you see national flags or ensigns worn below the port spreader relating to the nationality of those embarked if not of the same nationality as the boats ensign. This often occurs with charter boats or with boats registered as British by the Swiss or French (quite commonly as there are advantages to them!) owners and hence wear a red ensign, to indicate their true nationality. This is something they chose to do which is fast becoming the 'official' advice but is really a modern whim & has no leagal babsis. (US boats also often use rope (aka string to me) rodes/anchor chain - and that does not seem a good idea either but various US boating manuals advise use of rope, so they do!)

As far as Q flags go I have always understood from 50 years experience that you hoist the Courtesy flag with a Q flag below until you have completed necessary formalities after which time the Q flag is promptly removed. I have also been led to believe that although the courtesy flag is so called, it is not an optional act of courtesy but a compulsory by law requirement. Hence the officials of some countries (rightly) get a little miffed if such an ensign is not visible & appropriately worn.

 

[whipper_snapper]

As far as Q flags go I have always understood from 50 years experience that you hoist the Courtesy flag with a Q flag below until you have completed necessary formalities after which time the Q flag is promptly removed. I have also been led to believe that although the courtesy flag is so called, it is not an optional act of courtesy but a compulsory by law requirement. Hence the officials of some countries (rightly) get a little miffed if such an ensign is not visible & appropriately worn.

That has always been my understanding and my practice. It certainly was stated like that in Reeds for many years.

 

[johnabbott893]

My 1979 book from the RYA gives guidance on the positioning of the Q flag as "below courtesy Ensign if only one flag halliard. Etherwise on Port halliard.

The courtesy Ensign has the superior position on the Starboard crosstrees.

 

[BrianH]

Originally Posted by SimonJ
As far as Q flags go I have always understood from 50 years experience that you hoist the Courtesy flag with a Q flag below until you have completed necessary formalities after which time the Q flag is promptly removed.

That has always been my understanding and my practice. It certainly was stated like that in Reeds for many years.

This all bemused me because also "I have always understood from 50 years experience" - no, I tell a lie, it's really only 49 - that the Q flag is replaced by the courtesy flag only after clearance has been granted.

And a 1986 copy of Reeds just dug out does not specify exactly when the courtesy flag is raised or any relationship with the Q code flag under the chapter "Flags & Flag Etiquette". Neither, under the sub-section "International Code Flags" mentioning the latter, nor under "When Flags are Worn" mentioning the former, is there any clarification of timing of the two.

So, thinking I had been wrong all those years I invoked a Google search with both "Q Flag" and "Courtesy Flag"; it revealed a wealth of data and a cursory examination of some of the most authentic-looking showed that I had not been in error - all agreed with my original assumption. Try it.

 

[johnabbott893]

So, thinking I had been wrong all those years I invoked a Google search with both "Q Flag" and "Courtesy Flag"; it revealed a wealth of data and a cursory examination of some of the most authentic-looking showed that I had not been in error - all agreed with my original assumption. Try it.

Ah but is there actually an authority on the issue or do we just follow common practice. Clearly there was a time when it was practice to have both the courtesy Ensign and Q flag hoisted at the same time. There is also the practice of replacing the Q with the Ensign. Is either wrong and who is the authority. If the Americans do it one way then I will keep doing it the other. Unless of course, I don't actually have the correct courtesy Ensign. In which case I will make one whilst waiting to strike the Q flag.

 

[KellysEye]

My understanding is:

- By law you must fly a courtesy flag when entering territorial waters, on the starboard spreader.
- The national flag is senior to the Q flag.
- Thus you should fly the Q below the courtesy flag.

That's what we do and in some places you will get nailed if you don't fly a courtesy flag.

 

[BrianH]

My understanding is:

- By law you must fly a courtesy flag when entering territorial waters, on the starboard spreader.
- The national flag is senior to the Q flag.
- Thus you should fly the Q below the courtesy flag.

That's what we do and in some places you will get nailed if you don'y fly a courtesy flag.

So, with tongue firmly in cheek and pleading a boring, rainy, Sunday evening with nothing on the box ....

"- Thus you should fly the Q below the courtesy flag."

Complied with.

Clearance has now been granted, signal halyard and flags are lowered to remove Q flag.

Officious harbour factotum standing on customs pier now demands a fine for not complying with:
"- By law you must fly a courtesy flag when entering territorial waters, on the starboard spreader."

I'll get me coat ......

 

[KellysEye]

Funnily enough some jobsworth officials will give you a hard time if you have the 'wrong' courtesy flag or fine you if it's tatty.

For example Bonaire, Curacao, Corsica prefer you to fly their local flag rather than their national ensign which are - Bonaire, Curacao Netherlands Antillles flag, Corsica French Flag.

You will also be fined in Venezuela if you don't have the latest flag - 8 stars now, was seven stars. It can be a pain sometimes.

 

[macd]

My understanding is that the 'courtesy' flag is not really a courtesy at all, but a signal that you agree to abide by the regulations and laws of the state in whose waters you are sailing . If that's so, wouldn't logic suggest that it is flown in addition to the Q flag? (OK, maybe logic has nothing to do with it...)

 

[Salty John]

I beg to differ. Logic would dictate that until you have cleared-in you fly the Q flag and then replace it with the courtesy flag to indicate you have cleared in and agree to abide by the rules and regulations of the host country.

 

[HinewaisMan]

We've now visited 17 countries with Hinewai and have always flown the Q flag on the main mast stbd spreader flag halyard on approach and replaced it with the courtesy flag once the formalities are complete and we're cleared in.

Never had any problems.

 

[KellysEye]

>Logic would dictate that until you have cleared-in you fly the Q flag and then replace it with the courtesy flag

Logic might say that but the conflict is that you are supposed to hoist a courtesy flag as you enter territorial waters.

I have to say though you only get into trouble in some countries. We've been to about fifteen and only about three or four seem interested enough to take action. We've also seen boats with no courtesy flag or Q flag. Although we have seen a couple fined. The bottom line is it's surely no hassle to put two flags up so why take any risk.

 

[Salty John]

I realise this nit-picky in the extreme, but I think you'll find that the courtesy flag should only be flown once you have cleared-in. In fact, flying a courtesy flag without having cleared-in is an offence according to some.
Some 'authorities' on the subject make this 'not until you've cleared-in' rule a big deal, others don't. Until an absolute authority in such matters can be established we'll probably never know, or care, what is the officially correct procedure.

 

[Salty John]

An interesting aside: US naval vessels will not fly a courtesy flag because doing so would indicate an agreement to abide by the rules and regulations of the host nation. So they don't do it. I wonder if the Royal Navy has a similar rule?

 

[SimonJ]

Courtesy flags in warships - never!

An interesting aside: US naval vessels will not fly a courtesy flag because doing so would indicate an agreement to abide by the rules and regulations of the host nation. So they don't do it. I wonder if the Royal Navy has a similar rule?

No warship will never fly a courtesy flag.

 

[johnabbott893]

I realise this nit-picky in the extreme, but I think you'll find that the courtesy flag should only be flown once you have cleared-in. In fact, flying a courtesy flag without having cleared-in is an offence according to some.
Some 'authorities' on the subject make this 'not until you've cleared-in' rule a big deal, others don't. Until an absolute authority in such matters can be established we'll probably never know, or care, what is the officially correct procedure.

Evidence? So far the only real evidence we have is that both should be flown. This evidence conflicts with the widespread practice of flying the Q and replacing it with the courtesy Ensign.

Courtesy Ensign = I agree to abide by your rules and regulations.
Q Flag = my vessel is healthy and I request free pratique.

Is it reasonable for a state to grant you 'free pratique' if you are not willing to abide by their rules and regulations? I think not. If you are not flying their courtesy Ensign how will they know that you have consented to their jurisdiction.

 

[Salty John]

The only argument in this increasingly pedantic discussion is: Should you fly both the Q flag and the courtesy flag upon arrival or just the Q flag?"

I think you will find that for most nations, and certainly the ones I have cleared into, flying the courtesy flag indicates that you have cleared-in and accept the rules and regulations of the host nation.

So, if you feel that upon arrival you need to show both the host nation flag and Q at the starboard spreader, fine. If you want to wait until you have cleared in until flying the courtesy flag, fine. But, flying just the courtesy flag before clearing-in is a no-no.

 

[HinewaisMan]

if you feel that upon arrival you need to show both the host nation flag and Q at the starboard spreader, fine. If you want to wait until you have cleared in until flying the courtesy flag, fine. But, flying just the courtesy flag before clearing-in is a no-no.

Too true about the courtesy flag only before clearing in - historically the Q flag was literally the Quarantine flag and it was a vsiual signal that you were a boat from overseas that needed to pass quarantine checks - no plague etc. You have to fly it.

Now, we were taught that one flies the Q flag alone before clearing in.

But we've seen heaps of other yachts waiting to clear in flying both Q and Courtesy Flag (sometimes above the Q, sometimes below).

Never yet heard of anyone having problems with Q only, Q high or Q low.

And then once you've hoisted the courtesy flag.....! We had our arses reamed in Indonesia cos the courtesy flag was smaller than our Australian ensign - and our boiler plated cruising ensign is techically too small for the size of Hinewai.

And then there's places like Malta and some of the Malaysian States where the courtesy flag is not the National Flag.

Oh, and the UK where the courtesy flag is the Red Ensign, not the Union Jack (I think).