Pyrotechnic flare death - and recall

[dunedin]

Very sad case of a young Dutch yachtsman dieing as a result of discharging a flare which malfunctioned - Safety alert for Pirolec Red Rocket Parachute Flare L-35 - Practical Boat Owner

I had already decided to minimise pyrotechnics on board due to risks and disposal issues, prioritising other methods of distress alert

 

[LittleSister]

Sad, but extremely rare, and in this case relating to a flare brand sold only in Spain.

People have to make their own judgements about risks, but given the number of things I do that many people have died doing, a single death is not going to significantly change my assessment of the value/danger ratio of emergency pyrotechnics.

That the accident is said to have happened in the Pacific Ocean, which could include both incredibly remote places and those not at all remote, set me thinking about the relative merits of pryotechnics vs. laser 'flares' in the open ocean. I haven't come to any firm conclusions, and if you are willing or required to carry pyrotechnics there is nothing (except cost and storage space) to prevent you also carrying one or more laser 'flares'.

I was amused that this sad news article included the standard PBO subscription ad unfortunately saying 'Enjoyed reading Safety alert for Pirolec Red Rocket Parachute Flare L-35?'

 

[lustyd]

I don’t think it’s that rare, it’s the second incident I’ve read about in a year. The rare part is people setting them off, so perhaps percentage failure is actually quite high, we will probably never know since most just gather dust.
I also removed them from my boats. The risk is low enough and the faff and expense high enough that it seemed an easy decision. We only sail the channel though, and never in bad weather, so a handheld VHF will suffice most of the time!

 

[finestgreen]

Feels to me like it at least changes the risk balance of practising letting them off at sea survival courses

 

[capnsensible]

Here is an example of reliability.

Gibraltar has a large number of commercial vessels operating in the Territorial Waters that require coding. Small vessels like service launches, sailing schools, charter stuff etc, etc.

The port is run by KHM, formerly QHM. Each year they invite operators with time expired flares to deposit them at a designated reception office. Local Notice to Mariners etc then warn of a flare discharge session on one of the breakwaters. Hundreds have been discharged over the years with nil incidents.

Another example. In early June, the is a festival of the patron Saint of sailors and fishermen. Virgin DelCarmen. The Parades at sea always involve setting off a mass of pyros, also incident free.

Any faulty discharges, it seems to me, generally seem to involve time expired signal flares that are given a use by date for a real and valid reason. In date pyros have a tiny, tiny risk. Mebbe as much as your mobile phone battery igniting.

I also note that on this forum, every time this topic emerges, there is generally one or more posters who work in SAR, land or sea that rate them as hugely important in locating distressed people.

So for me, especially having been obliged to carry pros as a commercial operator, its a no brainer. However I understand that those who are able to make the choice may be wary and choose not to carry them. Plus, of course, tightwads.

 

[38mess]

Last coding of my boat about a year ago I mentioned to the MCA surveyor about laser replacement flares, he just said ' watch this space' so maybe there is a change in the air

 

[Stemar]

A couple of incidents over all the years I've been paying attention to such things is hardly evidence of unreliability or significant risk. Sure, very few flares get used in anger, and it's always possible that there have been other incidents where, as a result of a malfunction, the vessel has been lost without trace, but the risk still seems to me to be vanishingly small - on a par with Bouba's Tesla deciding to fry him without notice. It wouldn't stop me carrying them or using them if I thought they were necessary for the kind of sailing I do..

What does stop me is the fact that, in an emergency, I'm likely to be rather busy trying to keep us alive, so it'd be Madame who'd be handling the flares. She's never done it and doesn't do well in highly stressful situations, so I reckon an LED flare is going to be just as effective and safer for both of us.

 

[capnsensible]

I eagerly await the day an SAR helicopter pilot posts on here that battery operated distress signals are soo much better than pyros and that the batteries can go for years without charge and those batteries never catch fire.

 

[ylop]

I also removed them from my boats. The risk is low enough and the faff and expense high enough that it seemed an easy decision.

People seem to worry about pyros but I’ve never heard a report of one going off spontaneously in storage.

You’d only ever need to be setting them off in a life threatening situation (barring their use in a celebratory sense as seemed to be the case here), so I guess the balance of risks is would you you take a (very) small risk of malfunction resulting in harm to the user vs an immediate risk from whatever distress you are in?

i suspect that the total cost of ownership works out much the same whether you buy pyros or electronics (assuming it’s either or). Neither last for ever.

We only sail the channel though, and never in bad weather, so a handheld VHF will suffice most of the time!

I too am a fair weather sailer, but accept sometimes I or the meteorologists will get that wrong. I’m not sure most of the time would be good enough for me. I’d have though the channel might be a sensible place for parachute flares - stuff around that’s likely to be occasionally looking out the windows and know what it means, but enough reports of vessels not responding on VHF to believe not always listening or able to understand accents etc.?

 

[Sandy]

People seem to worry about pyros but I’ve never heard a report of one going off spontaneously in storage.

There is one forum member who has had spontaneous ignition, BUT they were stored in a cockpit locker full of stuff in Greece on a hot >30°C day. My estimate of the cockpit locker temperature is >50°C. Hence the ignition.

My 'just out of date' pyrotechnics survived the >40°C heatwave in Cornwall last summer, but they were stored at the waterline and well away from direct sunlight.

 

[ylop]

There is one forum member who has had spontaneous ignition, BUT they were stored in a cockpit locker full of stuff in Greece on a hot >30°C day. My estimate of the cockpit locker temperature is >50°C. Hence the ignition.

oh wow! I hope nobody was hurt, the insurers were cooperative and manufacturer interested in understanding the root cause. there must be lots of flares stored in places that get very hot so it seems that perhaps there’s a second factor - like how packed/stored? I guess my west of Scotland flares will be safe unless midges find a way to launch them - which is just as well as they live right next to the holding tank and I might prefer the fireball to take the boat then think about clearing that up!

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

I intend experimenting with some kind of a thick-walled metal firing tube.

 

[Fire99]

I think we worry too much. With every sneeze across the world reported everywhere, it's easy to lose perspective. Yeah it's good to be informed and make informed choices but when it comes to flares, if you follow the safety guidelines, the benefits far outweigh the risks. We all live with measured risk in everything we do.

 

[WoodyP]

If I remember correctly, Duncan Wells had a life changing injury when a flare went off backwards into his stomach. I have let them off and I wouldn't want to be sitting in a life raft if it went wrong, or I made a mistake through panic.

 

[Cantata]

If I remember correctly, Duncan Wells had a life changing injury when a flare went off backwards into his stomach. I have let them off and I wouldn't want to be sitting in a life raft if it went wrong, or I made a mistake through panic.

That's correct re Duncan.
I served on a HMCG team a while back. We used white para flares on night searches, and fired off time-expiring ones as practice. In later years, after Duncan's accident (which IIRC wasn't even a para flare) and presumably still currently, we were required to wear a heavy leather gauntlet to hold the things, way out at arms length to one side, and also wear a heavy-duty clear visor. Hardly practical for real on a small boat.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

That's correct re Duncan.
I served on a HMCG team a while back. We used white para flares on night searches, and fired off time-expiring ones as practice. In later years, after Duncan's accident (which IIRC wasn't even a para flare) and presumably still currently, we were required to wear a heavy leather gauntlet to hold the things, way out at arms length to one side, and also wear a heavy-duty clear visor. Hardly practical for real on a small boat.

Well, on a small boat you'll have work gloves for handling your chain, and a lightweight flexible visor that stores flat, such as were sold during the pandemic, would at least go part-way towards following that code of practice.

 

[WoodyP]

I have work gloves in the top of the flare box but don't think l could fit the whole safety kit in there?

 

[capnsensible]

On my school yachts I kept heavy duty gardening gloves in the flare box. Same on my live on it yacht.

 

[Gsailor]

This is a piece of kit that should NEVER fail if it is in date.

To fail is totally unacceptable regardless of cost (and they are not cheap, so even more so, they should work as designed).

The fact this killed someone is horrendous negligence / quality control.

Awful.

 

[dunedin]

This is a piece of kit that should NEVER fail if it is in date.

To fail is totally unacceptable regardless of cost (and they are not cheap, so even more so, they should work as designed).

The fact this killed someone is horrendous negligence / quality control.

Awful.

In fact it seems like pyrotechnics often fail, albeit very rarely in such a catastrophic and fatal way.
Apparently Tapio Lehtinen tried to set off a parachute flare during his rescue. In spite of his general experience, expensive safety preparation and calm nature in adversity, his first attempt to fire the parachute flare apparently diverted off at 45 degrees and hit the sea before it could do anything.
A second parachute flare managed to reach altitude but was not seen. Oddly was using parachute flares in daytime, when perhaps orange smoke might have been more use. But if somebody as experienced and cool as Tapio uses the wrong flare and fires one off in the wrong direction, when by then had plenty of time, what hope the average punter when flapping in a crisis?