Pwllheli Marina expansion rejected.

[Seven Spades]

Re: Welsh language dying.

[ QUOTE ]
How my reference to 'English tourists' can be construed as racist is quite beyond me,
John

[/ QUOTE ]

Try substituting the word Jewish for English and see if you feel comfortable.

 

[BrendanS]

Re: Welsh language dying.

[ QUOTE ]
Many Welsh people live happily in England just as many English people live happily in Wales and there's little wrong with that. Is it not reasonable however to expect that English people show some respect for the Welsh people and culture? This seems to be singularly lacking in some of the correspondence on this thread.


[/ QUOTE ]

It seems that most don't even begin to understand why this would be an issue, and think that the Welsh should just stand back and let the English take over the region, destroying many things that are important to them. And that without English Patronage, Wales will be forever a back water without culture, industry, jobs, or a healthy belief in their selves.

It seems colonial ambitions, though curtailed in other parts of the world, still thrive in the UK, and that it's OK to ride roughshod over cultural influence to make everyone and every region conform to language and belief that they wish to impose.

 

[ShipsWoofy]

Re: Welsh language dying. (longish)

I have been staying out of this as I feel it has gone a little off the rails.

I think the point about 'English tourists' is valid though maybe a little touchy. Far better to have just said 'tourists'.

The problem with diluting the local area and losing 'Welshness' is also valid and maybe, now don't shoot me, a powerboat phenomena. Many people who have powerboats on the marina have also bought houses in the area. Small 2 up 2 down terraces have recently been selling for £160,000 in an area deprived of industry. The young people have to move away in order to get work and buy property to have a normal family life.

The new project was estimated to create 17 jobs, I guess half of these would be seasonal. From what I see very few locals have boats on the marina and there was a great fear of more, lets be fair, rich people keeping boats in the area and buying the small starter homes as holiday homes.

Yes I said Mobo's, but personal observations that more people stay aboard yachts. A look around at cabin lights at night shows this. I could be wrong, this is a personal observation and the value of the Mobo's kept on the marina compared to yachts shows a definite difference in socio economic position of the owners.

I understand the protesters point of view, exactly as I understand the French who are now getting uppity about British people buying up holiday homes in France. Just because you can afford it does not mean you should, depriving young couples of local homes is outrageous. I should know, I could not afford to buy in my home town as it has become a retirement village with lots of affluent old people buying up the housing stock and driving up prices. To the point now that the community has been ripped out and the local young people have pretty much all moved away.

On the other side of the coin I pay the equivalent of a full community charge for my mooring and the cost to the town is pretty low per capita of boat owners. This is massive income for the town and especially as the marina belongs to Gwynned council. Though I pay Caernarfon, so I wonder how much actually goes back into Pwllheli, probably very little knowing local councils.

Basically I can see both sides of the argument, I think the council have made the right decision, not just for me, but for the town. I see nothing wrong with trying to preserve communities. I do see a problem with houses that are empty 90% of the time when younger married couples have to live with parents or in caravans if they have not moved away.

I actually like keeping the boat in Wales because it is Wales and it does not get much more Welsh than the Llyn peninsular.

 

[BrendanS]

Re: Welsh language dying. (longish)

Nicely argued. But it's not people like you that need the arguement spelling out?

 

[raven]

Re: Welsh language dying. (longish)

Eureka! I have been reading the thread and getting more frustrated at the basic lack of understanding of what is a very real problem in North Wales.

Ships Woofy has summarised it perfectly.

The fact is that the area is a stunningly beautiful sailing ground - there can be few better approaches to a harbour than that into Porthmadog with Snowdon and The Moelwyns as a backdrop.

The area is a magnet for wealthy people from Birmingham, Manchester & Liverpool who can be there in two hours or less to sail there nice boats - they then decide to buy a cosy cottage or bungalow in the area to complete the picture and in doing so force the cost of housing up out of reach of the locals.

The local economy is based largely on agriculture, tourism and (to a diminishing degree) slate mining - ie it is poorly paid work with little chance of better earning potential without moving out of the area.

It is therefore understandable that resentment exists amongst some of the locals, although my own experiences have been very positive. It helps of course if you dont go around cracking the sheep "joke" or telling the local folk how grateful they should be for the huge revenue you plough into the local economy by buying your McDonalds in their town or swigging your G&Ts in their pubs!

 

[Lakesailor]

Re: Welsh language dying. (longish)

[ QUOTE ]
I see nothing wrong with trying to preserve communities. I do see a problem with houses that are empty 90% of the time when younger married couples have to live with parents or in caravans if they have not moved away.

[/ QUOTE ] I think you're quite right there. In the Lakes the same argument has been going on for many years and now local business people are starting to ask for more affordable housing. However much an area depends on tourism and "incomers" to exist there always has to be a local nucleus of people to provide the service infrastructure. They must have affordable housing.
Even Buckingham Palace has to have the bins emptied.

 

[whisper]

Re: Welsh language dying. (longish)

Affordable Housing - exactly how does this work?
I can understand that a builder could buy a piece of derelict land that is "cheap" due to it having been a filling station or slaughterhouse or summat. He can then build a small terrace development on it - say 6 x 2 bedroomed units - which will be "cheap" to build on a per unit basis.
Thus the development could be considered to be "cheap", but, will it be affordable? Not necessarily 'cos whilst they might be on the market at £120k - with the developer making a small but reasonable profit - if there's little or no work about for the locals they won't be able to afford to buy it.
Ok along comes a housing association and they offer to pay £60k if the local will pay the remainder. What happens when owner 1 wants to move and how long before one of the next door dwellings has to be sold to an incomer because it hasn't been "bought" by a local? Won't the value and future sale price of all the houses in the development end up being "market value". Thus they will be likely to become unaffordable again ?? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Lakesailor]

Re: Welsh language dying. (longish)

Don't know. Not been involved in that. There are grants for development from "The Housing Corporation" whoever they may be.
Most local housing planning permissions here do not allow the property back into the open market without a planning appeal. I think the time limit has been extended before such appeals are allowed.

 

[fireball]

Affordable Housing?

The problem surely lies partly with the low interest rate - meaning that couples can now borrow far more than they ever could (5 x single income is not uncommon) and this in itself helps push the property price up.
Small communities will always suffer in this "great" age of communication and travel - where it is cheaper to get a flight to some far flung destination than to get a train ticket to the capital.
I don't think I could afford to get a morgtage for any of the properties in our village - at todays prices - just glad we bought when we did!

I suppose a way of preventing so many houses being used as holiday homes would be to increase the community charge on properties used as such - but this doesn't create local jobs and keep the younger generation in the village.

With so much of our industries being outsourced we are becomming a consumer nation and soon have nothing to sell other than "consultancy" ... I just hope the government sees whats going on and does something about it before it is too late.

Sorry for wandering off subject!