Pwllheli Marina expansion rejected.
- Thread starter ShipsWoofy
- Start date
fireball
Well-Known Member
so you get to keep your mooring - for the moment anyway - won't they resubmit? Apeal and generally go ahead whilst waiting for permission ... thats what they do with house building round here!! And planning don't stop them as they might get retrospective permission and sue the council for financial loss ....
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
won't they resubmit?
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It's not as simple as that. Unlike most of the UK's marinas, Hafan Pwllheli is owned by the council, and they have now decided not to expand. It was not just a question of planning permission.
won't they resubmit?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not as simple as that. Unlike most of the UK's marinas, Hafan Pwllheli is owned by the council, and they have now decided not to expand. It was not just a question of planning permission.
Mike21
Well-Known Member
Maybe they will get sued for race discrimination as well as it appears from the report that it was rejected because it would bring in non-welsh speakers
F_McMillan
Active Member
Yeah, bit surprised to see that on the news last night.
Good result all round in my opinion. Marina for those who want it and swinging moorings for those who want them. Everyone wins apart from big business.
Now if only we could find a way to stop huge supermarkets from destroying the little guy the world would be a better place.
Good result all round in my opinion. Marina for those who want it and swinging moorings for those who want them. Everyone wins apart from big business.
Now if only we could find a way to stop huge supermarkets from destroying the little guy the world would be a better place.
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Marina for those who want it
[/ QUOTE ]
But unfortunately there isn't for a lot of people. Waiting list nearly as long as capacity, and on current turn-a-round rate, well over a decade's wait.
New Asda being built in Pwllheli. Doesn't seem to be much objection to that.
Marina for those who want it
[/ QUOTE ]
But unfortunately there isn't for a lot of people. Waiting list nearly as long as capacity, and on current turn-a-round rate, well over a decade's wait.
New Asda being built in Pwllheli. Doesn't seem to be much objection to that.
andy_wilson
Well-Known Member
Welsh language dying.
2 years last Feb we delivered a yacht to Pwllheli, and rounded the w/e off with a nite in the pub.
Some young dick 'ed said to his mate in Welsh "all English are 5h1t5" within earshot of my mate, who turned round and, spoke with a gentle North East accent - in Welsh, a suitable reply.
Whilever they fail to realise that sheep will not be their salvation, and the EU will cease to be their salvation soon, they contine to be a small minded, economically challenged, marginal race of people.
Sweeping generalisation I know. Don't they teach "Economics in the Welsh Language" in the schools over there?
2 years last Feb we delivered a yacht to Pwllheli, and rounded the w/e off with a nite in the pub.
Some young dick 'ed said to his mate in Welsh "all English are 5h1t5" within earshot of my mate, who turned round and, spoke with a gentle North East accent - in Welsh, a suitable reply.
Whilever they fail to realise that sheep will not be their salvation, and the EU will cease to be their salvation soon, they contine to be a small minded, economically challenged, marginal race of people.
Sweeping generalisation I know. Don't they teach "Economics in the Welsh Language" in the schools over there?
beachbum
Well-Known Member
Looks like a good decision for a bad reason - one of those politicians' specialities.
Captain_Chaos
Well-Known Member
Re: Welsh language dying.
I spent a season at Pwhelli and although the staff there were great, I had similar experiences in the town.
In the end, I decided that although many of the locals were well balanced (with an equally big chip on each shoulder) sailing was supposed to be relaxing and the boorish and paranoid behaviour of the yokels made it an unpleasant place to visit.
I spent a season at Pwhelli and although the staff there were great, I had similar experiences in the town.
In the end, I decided that although many of the locals were well balanced (with an equally big chip on each shoulder) sailing was supposed to be relaxing and the boorish and paranoid behaviour of the yokels made it an unpleasant place to visit.
david_e
Well-Known Member
In some respects this is good news, because the planned expansion was only going to be 1.5m deep, excluding many sailing boats and would have meant mainly powerboats. (Shellfish I know, but there you go).
The economics of it did not stack up for me, the original marina was built from Euro dosh, and the proposed plan would have stretched itself from a self financing point of view.
At least the channel won't be busier, and, as mentioned, you can stay put /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
The economics of it did not stack up for me, the original marina was built from Euro dosh, and the proposed plan would have stretched itself from a self financing point of view.
At least the channel won't be busier, and, as mentioned, you can stay put /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
david_e
Well-Known Member
Re: Welsh language dying.
This is not the only place in the world where they hate the English (for historical reasons) but are happy to take your money. Funny thing is that there are lots of legal immigrants heading their way giving them someone else to hate, so we might start to move up their popularity list /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The language issue is important to them but not many other people, including the majority of South Wales.
The changing culture and popluation migration is moving at a pace much faster then they can maintain because of the number of English buying property there. This is reflected in the fact that Plaid Cymru lost 25% of it's seats at the last election. Interesting that locals are happy to sell their houses to anyone but moan like b*****y about the price of houses.
The sensible people down there know the score and like most good business people adapt to the changing times and prosper from the economic growth.
This is not the only place in the world where they hate the English (for historical reasons) but are happy to take your money. Funny thing is that there are lots of legal immigrants heading their way giving them someone else to hate, so we might start to move up their popularity list /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The language issue is important to them but not many other people, including the majority of South Wales.
The changing culture and popluation migration is moving at a pace much faster then they can maintain because of the number of English buying property there. This is reflected in the fact that Plaid Cymru lost 25% of it's seats at the last election. Interesting that locals are happy to sell their houses to anyone but moan like b*****y about the price of houses.
The sensible people down there know the score and like most good business people adapt to the changing times and prosper from the economic growth.
rjp
Well-Known Member
Re: Welsh language dying.
Well I'm not a Welsh speaker but have lived in Wales for much of my life and have met many fine people on both sides of the language divide. I never ceases to amaze me however how many English people feel they have a God-given right to come to Wales and criticise it's people in the most crass and often racist manner (usually involving references to sheep - though I believe you have these in England too in case you hadn't noticed). Clearly in your case the young fellow in the pub made a very astute observation - though like yourself perhaps generalised a bit!
Now shall we keep the forum for boats and sailing as it was designed to be, rather than for running down fellow members of the human race!
John
Well I'm not a Welsh speaker but have lived in Wales for much of my life and have met many fine people on both sides of the language divide. I never ceases to amaze me however how many English people feel they have a God-given right to come to Wales and criticise it's people in the most crass and often racist manner (usually involving references to sheep - though I believe you have these in England too in case you hadn't noticed). Clearly in your case the young fellow in the pub made a very astute observation - though like yourself perhaps generalised a bit!
Now shall we keep the forum for boats and sailing as it was designed to be, rather than for running down fellow members of the human race!
John
ShipsWoofy
Well-Known Member
Re: Welsh language dying.
I thought this was sailing... It is the biggest marina in Wales and certainly one the the biggest and more prominent harbours. If the locals behave in such a way that some English people are driven away then this is bad news for sailing in the area.
This particular story has been swinging backward and forward for the last couple of years. I have personal reasons as it would have affected me directly, but I am also surprised from a revenue point of view that it has been rejected.
It is not a great idea to become a self appointed forum policeman and dictate what we can and cannot talk about, as above this thread is about as sailing as they get.
I just hope now the council get around to dredging the harbour as they have been putting it off in anticipation of the new marina.
I thought this was sailing... It is the biggest marina in Wales and certainly one the the biggest and more prominent harbours. If the locals behave in such a way that some English people are driven away then this is bad news for sailing in the area.
This particular story has been swinging backward and forward for the last couple of years. I have personal reasons as it would have affected me directly, but I am also surprised from a revenue point of view that it has been rejected.
It is not a great idea to become a self appointed forum policeman and dictate what we can and cannot talk about, as above this thread is about as sailing as they get.
I just hope now the council get around to dredging the harbour as they have been putting it off in anticipation of the new marina.
Magnum
RIP
What an utterly moronic decision. Do they honestly think that the expansion of a marina is the biggest threat to use of the Welsh language in that area?
I've never understood this hatred for the English. Without our patronage Wales would be even more backward than it is today. As for the vocal locals - get a life!
I've never understood this hatred for the English. Without our patronage Wales would be even more backward than it is today. As for the vocal locals - get a life!
rjp
Well-Known Member
Re: Welsh language dying.
[ QUOTE ]
It is not a great idea to become a self appointed forum policeman and dictate what we can and cannot talk about, as above this thread is about as sailing as they get.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not trying to become a self-appointed forum policeman but when people make disparaging remarks about my fellow countrymen without the slightest understanding of the complex issues involved it's difficult to just ignore. The local council have made a democratic decision based on local issues - that's part of the process of government we have. While Wales welcomes tourists it doesn't exist solely for their pleasure, there is an indiginous population and culture to consider. Perhaps if English tourists took a more holistic interest in Wales rather than treating our country as a playground ripe for exploitation they would be made to feel more welcome. There are plenty of well integrated English people living in Wales who have done this and enjoy a fantastic life. It's the neo-colonialist attitude of some that grates.
But we're getting political again - like I said, lets stick to sailing.
John
[ QUOTE ]
It is not a great idea to become a self appointed forum policeman and dictate what we can and cannot talk about, as above this thread is about as sailing as they get.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not trying to become a self-appointed forum policeman but when people make disparaging remarks about my fellow countrymen without the slightest understanding of the complex issues involved it's difficult to just ignore. The local council have made a democratic decision based on local issues - that's part of the process of government we have. While Wales welcomes tourists it doesn't exist solely for their pleasure, there is an indiginous population and culture to consider. Perhaps if English tourists took a more holistic interest in Wales rather than treating our country as a playground ripe for exploitation they would be made to feel more welcome. There are plenty of well integrated English people living in Wales who have done this and enjoy a fantastic life. It's the neo-colonialist attitude of some that grates.
But we're getting political again - like I said, lets stick to sailing.
John
fireball
Well-Known Member
Re: Welsh language dying.
Funnily enough I thought we were in Great Britain ... not seperate countries - England/Wales/Scotland - oh and Cornwall ...
I was in North Wales for a year and it was well understood that the local youths didn't like the "english" so were good targets for their abuse - this is just as racist as your comment about "English Tourists" ....
I have a small understanding about the languages dying and the use of possitive discrimination to try and combat it, but that does not excuse racist behaviour from anyone. Welsh and Sheep is a standing joke - always has been, a bit like Scots being tight with their money, surely there is an "English" joke too?
Political or not - a marina expansion is subject to local planning - controlled by the council and it follows that experiences and comments regarding local issues are aired on here.
Have you bothered to count how many Welsh people are living in England and treat it with the same crass manor? No? Why not? Does it matter? Only to those who it affects.
Funnily enough I thought we were in Great Britain ... not seperate countries - England/Wales/Scotland - oh and Cornwall ...
I was in North Wales for a year and it was well understood that the local youths didn't like the "english" so were good targets for their abuse - this is just as racist as your comment about "English Tourists" ....
I have a small understanding about the languages dying and the use of possitive discrimination to try and combat it, but that does not excuse racist behaviour from anyone. Welsh and Sheep is a standing joke - always has been, a bit like Scots being tight with their money, surely there is an "English" joke too?
Political or not - a marina expansion is subject to local planning - controlled by the council and it follows that experiences and comments regarding local issues are aired on here.
Have you bothered to count how many Welsh people are living in England and treat it with the same crass manor? No? Why not? Does it matter? Only to those who it affects.
rjp
Well-Known Member
Re: Welsh language dying.
Great Britain (and Northern Ireland!) exists as a political entity overarching the four constituent nations and several culturally diverse regions of which Cornwall is the prime example. Economic issues such as housing costs, tourism versus local interests etc. affect many of these entities and in Wales the language issue complicates things further. These things create inevitable tensions which politicians have to deal with as they have in the case of Haven Pwllheli. I'm not a great lover of politicians myself, though in this case they seem to me to have done a fair job. The council do own the marina after all so seem to have every right to decide not to expand it.
How my reference to 'English tourists' can be construed as racist is quite beyond me, particularly in the same paragraph where you defend the 'sheep' joke which is offensive to many Welsh people and not even remotely funny. I think you need to examine your own personal values here. However I don't condone the racist/boorish behaviour of youth either, though in reality such behaviour isn't limited to Wales.
Many Welsh people live happily in England just as many English people live happily in Wales and there's little wrong with that. Is it not reasonable however to expect that English people show some respect for the Welsh people and culture? This seems to be singularly lacking in some of the correspondence on this thread.
Anyway, I'm getting bored with this, I would rather talk about sailing!
John
Great Britain (and Northern Ireland!) exists as a political entity overarching the four constituent nations and several culturally diverse regions of which Cornwall is the prime example. Economic issues such as housing costs, tourism versus local interests etc. affect many of these entities and in Wales the language issue complicates things further. These things create inevitable tensions which politicians have to deal with as they have in the case of Haven Pwllheli. I'm not a great lover of politicians myself, though in this case they seem to me to have done a fair job. The council do own the marina after all so seem to have every right to decide not to expand it.
How my reference to 'English tourists' can be construed as racist is quite beyond me, particularly in the same paragraph where you defend the 'sheep' joke which is offensive to many Welsh people and not even remotely funny. I think you need to examine your own personal values here. However I don't condone the racist/boorish behaviour of youth either, though in reality such behaviour isn't limited to Wales.
Many Welsh people live happily in England just as many English people live happily in Wales and there's little wrong with that. Is it not reasonable however to expect that English people show some respect for the Welsh people and culture? This seems to be singularly lacking in some of the correspondence on this thread.
Anyway, I'm getting bored with this, I would rather talk about sailing!
John
fireball
Well-Known Member
Re: Welsh language dying.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to defend the nationalistic jokes, just stating that they were standing "jokes" and by and large meant as such. I believe your comment about "English Tourists" is racist as your are making sweeping statements about a huge number of people to which the opinion viewed cannot possibly be true, fair to say that a "large number of" or "many", but not tar all English Tourists with the same brush - anyway, why should English Tourists be classed as English Tourists in Wales? I'm not classed as a Sussex Tourist in London ... it is irrelevant where I come from as I am British - that is what my passport says.
Back to the sailing bit - I don't know anything about the marina or the specific local issues ... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
It takes 2 to lie, one to lie and one to listen. : Homer Simpson
Sorry, I wasn't trying to defend the nationalistic jokes, just stating that they were standing "jokes" and by and large meant as such. I believe your comment about "English Tourists" is racist as your are making sweeping statements about a huge number of people to which the opinion viewed cannot possibly be true, fair to say that a "large number of" or "many", but not tar all English Tourists with the same brush - anyway, why should English Tourists be classed as English Tourists in Wales? I'm not classed as a Sussex Tourist in London ... it is irrelevant where I come from as I am British - that is what my passport says.
Back to the sailing bit - I don't know anything about the marina or the specific local issues ... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
It takes 2 to lie, one to lie and one to listen. : Homer Simpson
rjp
Well-Known Member
Re: Welsh language dying.
Apology about the joke accepted and I'll offer my apology for the generalisation (well it was midnight and perhaps I didn't manage to convey my thoughts quite as I should have). Better get back to thinking about jobs on the boat if I'm ever going to get afloat this year. Good sailing....
John
Apology about the joke accepted and I'll offer my apology for the generalisation (well it was midnight and perhaps I didn't manage to convey my thoughts quite as I should have). Better get back to thinking about jobs on the boat if I'm ever going to get afloat this year. Good sailing....
John
NigeCh
Well-Known Member
The Councils decision wiil only exeracerbate the death of the welsch l
By trying to protect themselves and their kith all they are doing is promoting the death of one of the original languages of Britain. The new young welsh speaking youngsters are fleeing the nest and going where it suits them [ie Australia] and their future best ... and all that is/are/wiil-be-soon are the past its and the introspective carw politicians who have lost the plot .... Kernow is dead. Cymreg will soon be deader than dead because of the poly-gumrau poollfwelly decision.
By trying to protect themselves and their kith all they are doing is promoting the death of one of the original languages of Britain. The new young welsh speaking youngsters are fleeing the nest and going where it suits them [ie Australia] and their future best ... and all that is/are/wiil-be-soon are the past its and the introspective carw politicians who have lost the plot .... Kernow is dead. Cymreg will soon be deader than dead because of the poly-gumrau poollfwelly decision.
