Prout 45 advice/ opinion sought; stern squat, water tanks, hard bimini

[Greener]

Hello new friends,

Just became the proud new owner of a 1996 Prout 45 and would love some advice or the opinions from those more knowledgeable. She sits quite low in the water at the stern, with water actually coming over the first transom steps when underway. I don’t believe her to be over weighted, is this a design problem? A little concerning as we plan on adding more weight in the form of a hard bimini and solar. Would a transom extension aid in boyancy?

As we know is Common in the prout design with the intergrated fiberglass watertanks in the keel, she has osmosis blisters within the water tanks. After lots of reading and some semi professional advice it would appear that a full sand back, dry and then re epoxy, glass and paint with food grade materials is the best solution. The access is definitely a problem and we’ve been quoted a very large sum to have to taken care of. Would love to talk with someone with first hand experience resolving this problem.

Also looking to have a hard Bimini made and have seen lots of stock images but would love to actually get some some first hand info on what worked, what you would change etc. save us making similar mistake the first time around.

Thanks for taking the time to read and for any advice shared.

Fair winds.

 

[jwilson]

I know of one big Prout cat delivered new to the first owners in the late 1990s that turned out to be a lot over the designed displacement. Not sure if it was a 45, but that one was slower than expected, and had some serious build faults. That one had air-con and a washing machine, though these additions were not enough to account for the tons of exceess weight.

 

[Neeves]

Welcome to the forum.

Does she squat, transom step under water, when sailing or when under motor? If when sailing - what sail plan. If she squats when stationary on a pontoon or at anchor - think of what weight can be moved forward (a long way )

I cannot think of anything more difficult than removing osmosis blister in a water tank. Access will be awful.

We don't own a Prout but if you have osmosis in the tank(s) - (is this in the mini keels), I might be concerned about osmosis elsewhere. Assuming there is no osmosis in any other locations I would be inclined to assess the volume of osmosis and if not extreme I'd suggest considering using bladder tanks in the keels which will negate any osmosis. Our mini keels are sealed and sacrificial. Our water tanks are in the hulls - under the cabin sole, with fuel tank at the mast (in fact the tank is 'moulded' round the mast). Given you post and thread I might consider how much space you have under the cabin soles to locate the water tanks there and forward, instead of amidships. This will possibly mean cutting into the existing cabin sole, shudders at the thought, but might actually be easier and will move a huge amount of weight forward.

Another option - buy a de-sal unit - don't carry too much water - make it. If you worry about not enough water - have a bath with a friend - you know it makes sense

We have 1m transom extensions and theoretically this will increase buoyancy in the stern and offer more speed. Measuring any of this is subject to some bias and even more optimism. . However our 1m transom extensions make unloading from a dinghy easy (you have a big platform at near dinghy height to unload stores). It is also easier to board or disembark a dinghy onto a long platform than 'into' a relatively narrow platform. I depends on where you sail but landing tuna or Spanish mackerel onto a long platform makes retrieving and cleaning a decent sized fish easy (I suspect it makes retrieving a MOB easier as well - but we have no personal experience.

We built and installed our own transom extensions. One of the best things we ever did but adding an enclosed helm station (the God Pod) vies for first place as well. Our hard Bimini totally covering the cockpit was part of the build.

Weight is a real killer for multihulls think twice before adding more weight (especially as you seem to be complaining of weight based issues). Think of how you can reduce weight vs adding weight. think how you can move weight from the stern further forward -- if you, or anyone else, send me a PM with an email address I'll send you a pdf on weight reduction - its too big to post on YBW.

As an aside - in big sea we find our cockpit sole (aka floor) is automatically cleaned by a following sea. We built washboards to keep the sea out and the grandchildren and deck shoes in. Sadly we were a bit late and if you find an odd shoe ...... it might be mine

Jonathan

 

[Iliade]

Is the boat sitting to her marks when moored or is she low overall?
How many people standing on the bow are needed to bring her into trim?
Are there any voids that could be full of water?
Missed a cable of chain and an anchor in the stern locker?
(Edit: Crossed with Neeves)

 

[Neeves]

Is the boat sitting to her marks when moored or is she low overall?
How many people standing on the bow are needed to bring her into trim?
Are there any voids that could be full of water?
Missed a cable of chain and an anchor in the stern locker?
(Edit: Crossed with Neeves)

Well mentioned, I'd forgotten........

We have crash bulkheads, in the bow, and I opened one up (don't recall why - ours have rubber flanged bolted panels that can be removed)) it had a significant amount of water which came from an incorrectly installed pulpit. This then prompted me to look at the other bow, dry, and then reseat the pulpit and add reinforcing pads to the bobstays for the prodder. As part of maintenance I have look, roughly annually, to check.

Jonathan

 

[Iliade]

Would it be worth fitting bulkhead fittings and ball valves? Could be low maintenance plastic ones.

 

[StefanSG]

Congratulations on your purchase ! I would advise asking in the very helpful and informative Facebook group Prout Catamaran Owners group there are plenty of 45 owners who would be happy to advise you.
SSG

 

[Greener]

Welcome to the forum.

Does she squat, transom step under water, when sailing or when under motor? If when sailing - what sail plan. If she squats when stationary on a pontoon or at anchor - think of what weight can be moved forward (a long way )

I cannot think of anything more difficult than removing osmosis blister in a water tank. Access will be awful.

We don't own a Prout but if you have osmosis in the tank(s) - (is this in the mini keels), I might be concerned about osmosis elsewhere. Assuming there is no osmosis in any other locations I would be inclined to assess the volume of osmosis and if not extreme I'd suggest considering using bladder tanks in the keels which will negate any osmosis. Our mini keels are sealed and sacrificial. Our water tanks are in the hulls - under the cabin sole, with fuel tank at the mast (in fact the tank is 'moulded' round the mast). Given you post and thread I might consider how much space you have under the cabin soles to locate the water tanks there and forward, instead of amidships. This will possibly mean cutting into the existing cabin sole, shudders at the thought, but might actually be easier and will move a huge amount of weight forward.

Another option - buy a de-sal unit - don't carry too much water - make it. If you worry about not enough water - have a bath with a friend - you know it makes sense

We have 1m transom extensions and theoretically this will increase buoyancy in the stern and offer more speed. Measuring any of this is subject to some bias and even more optimism. . However our 1m transom extensions make unloading from a dinghy easy (you have a big platform at near dinghy height to unload stores). It is also easier to board or disembark a dinghy onto a long platform than 'into' a relatively narrow platform. I depends on where you sail but landing tuna or Spanish mackerel onto a long platform makes retrieving and cleaning a decent sized fish easy (I suspect it makes retrieving a MOB easier as well - but we have no personal experience.

We built and installed our own transom extensions. One of the best things we ever did but adding an enclosed helm station (the God Pod) vies for first place as well. Our hard Bimini totally covering the cockpit was part of the build.

Weight is a real killer for multihulls think twice before adding more weight (especially as you seem to be complaining of weight based issues). Think of how you can reduce weight vs adding weight. think how you can move weight from the stern further forward -- if you, or anyone else, send me a PM with an email address I'll send you a pdf on weight reduction - its too big to post on YBW.

As an aside - in big sea we find our cockpit sole (aka floor) is automatically cleaned by a following sea. We built washboards to keep the sea out and the grandchildren and deck shoes in. Sadly we were a bit late and if you find an odd shoe ...... it might be mine

Jonathan

Thanks Jonathan, to be honest we’ve only had her out on the water for an hour during the sea trial and then she was back up on the hard wintered. So she’s only been viewed under engine. The last owners have her stacked with all sorts of stuff, vacuume cleaner, high pressure cleaner so it will be interesting to see how she sits once we remove all the things we don’t consider essential. Hopefully it gives us enough play for our planed improvements.

I think the point of fish retrieval solidifies the need for a transom extension regardless of the stern squat. Excellent point.

 

[Greener]

Is the boat sitting to her marks when moored or is she low overall?
How many people standing on the bow are needed to bring her into trim?
Are there any voids that could be full of water?
Missed a cable of chain and an anchor in the stern locker?
(Edit: Crossed with Neeves)

Will have to check once she is back in the water, currently wintered. Will also check the stern locker for a kitchen sink from previous owner. For sure there is weight that can be removed. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Neeves]

Ah!

Our cat squats when under full power in flat water. I'd say its not that the stern squats but that the bow lifts (meaning the stern squats).

If it squats under sail - you are going too fast !

We try not to sail hard on the wind - most cats are dogs to windward and sailing to windward in seas is not much fun. Off the wind and down wind the bows may drop the power from the sails is reversed to that of the engine and if anything the transoms lift - which is why our bows have a lot of buoyancy (and we keep the weight (chain, water, fuel, batteries) amidships.

I'd check how she sits in calm water - you might be focussing on the wrong thing and worrying unduly.

But take note of the advice and check the various points raised.

The big issue with cats is that you have lots of space and the tendency is to fill the space - DON'T. Filled space is weight and weight is the killer

If you build a hard Bimini (or extend the coach roof) - it needs to be strong enough to stand on safely, this then means it might be heavy. You should be able to build one yourself, or transom extensions. You can do most of the build at home and then fit the completed item. The only issue with building at home (which was true of our helm station) it can be big and difficult to transport. Our coach roof extension, came as standard, is supported by a targa 'bar' which is angled off at 45 degrees and takes some of the wiring. We fitted our helm station on our swing mooring, the transom extensions we made at home (as with the helm station) but we fitted during and extended slip (when we also did the AF) as you simply cannot do it 'on the water' as you need to cut the gel coat back to overlap the the joint between the extensions and original transom.

If you need pics and when you are ready - ask.

Jonathan

 

[Greener]

Ah!

Our cat squats when under full power in flat water. I'd say its not that the stern squats but that the bow lifts (meaning the stern squats).

If it squats under sail - you are going too fast !

We try not to sail hard on the wind - most cats are dogs to windward and sailing to windward in seas is not much fun. Off the wind and down wind the bows may drop the power from the sails is reversed to that of the engine and if anything the transoms lift - which is why our bows have a lot of buoyancy (and we keep the weight (chain, water, fuel, batteries) amidships.

I'd check how she sits in calm water - you might be focussing on the wrong thing and worrying unduly.

But take note of the advice and check the various points raised.

The big issue with cats is that you have lots of space and the tendency is to fill the space - DON'T. Filled space is weight and weight is the killer

If you build a hard Bimini (or extend the coach roof) - it needs to be strong enough to stand on safely, this then means it might be heavy. You should be able to build one yourself, or transom extensions. You can do most of the build at home and then fit the completed item. The only issue with building at home (which was true of our helm station) it can be big and difficult to transport. Our coach roof extension, came as standard, is supported by a targa 'bar' which is angled off at 45 degrees and takes some of the wiring. We fitted our helm station on our swing mooring, the transom extensions we made at home (as with the helm station) but we fitted during and extended slip (when we also did the AF) as you simply cannot do it 'on the water' as you need to cut the gel coat back to overlap the the joint between the extensions and original transom.

If you need pics and when you are ready - ask.

Jonathan

thanks, I’ll pm you.

 

[Greener]

thanks, I’ll pm you.

It would appear that I am not able to send pms as a new member.

 

[fredrussell]

It would appear that I am not able to send pms as a new member.

I think you just need to get your post count up a bit.

 

[Neeves]

It appears I cannot send you a PM either, possibly for a similar reason to the one that you cannot PM me.

Somewhere in the rules it will define how many times you need to post to be able to send PMs - or ask the Mods (in the relevant section of the Forum).

But don't worry - we all still be here when you reach the required post numbers

Jonathan