Proper First Aid Course? - I keep forgetting everything!

AntarcticPilot said:
Different sort of situation, but we were taught that direct mouth to mouth was for emergencies only - ideally use a shield or even one of those little things with a bulb you squeeze. For all the HEP-C, HIV and so on reasons, direct contact - especially with a patient you don't know - is regarded as a risky proposition for the first-aider.
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Surely any kind of resuscitation is "for emergencies only", by definition :)

The Cat C first-aid kit I bought for Ariam includes a mask with valve for mouth-to-mouth, for this reason. Although given that I sail with people I know, I'd be reasonably relaxed about this risk anyway.

I did open up the pack and have a ferret through it - I know people who charter their boats like to keep them sealed to stop the punters pilfering bits without telling so they can be restocked, but that doesn't apply to me. Glad I did, as some of the bits were decidedly on the cheap and crappy side. The scissors for example looked like they were out of a Christmas cracker, and not even a good-quality Christmas cracker. MCA box ticked, but that's all. Now got a decent pair of stainless blunt-tipped scissors in the kit, plus a pair of those ambulance shears (they're not expensive) just in case I need to be cutting off trouser legs or whatever.

The MCA says there must be a "first aid guide" in the kit, but not what it must contain, so this pack had a credit-card sized bit of paper saying how to put an unconscious person in the recovery position and that it was a good idea to record their pulse and breathing.

Pete
 
prv said:
Surely any kind of resuscitation is "for emergencies only", by definition :)

SNIP

The MCA says there must be a "first aid guide" in the kit, but not what it must contain, so this pack had a credit-card sized bit of paper saying how to put an unconscious person in the recovery position and that it was a good idea to record their pulse and breathing.

Pete
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YEs, but emergencies can happen in the presence of a well-equipped first-aid kit or not. I suppose I meant "an emergency that happens in a location where you do not have access to first-aid equipment" as against "an emergency that happens in a location where there is equipment available".

I am fortunate enough to have a copy of Kurafid, the British Antarctic Survey First Aid guide, which has to be one of the best resources available. I have both the handy reference guide and the complete book. It really does have "DON'T PANIC" on the cover! It has been developed over a very long period, and presents information in a very practical and pragmatic manner. You can get copies through second hand book websites like Abebooks, but it changes with time, so if you want it, get as new a copy as you can.

Kurafid has useful information like how to tell if you've got a corpse on your hands, and what to do if you do (though some of the advice won't usually work in the UK - leaving a body outside to freeze isn't normally going to work :))! That apart, it probably matches the situation we all face better than the average first-aid course, as it assumes that medical assistance may be unavailable, and tells you what kind of information a medic will need to help you on the radio and so on. Away from the Solent, I guess we are all sailing at least hours from help.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
Kurafid has useful information like how to tell if you've got a corpse on your hands, and what to do if you do (though some of the advice won't usually work in the UK - leaving a body outside to freeze isn't normally going to work :))! That apart, it probably matches the situation we all face better than the average first-aid course, as it assumes that medical assistance may be unavailable, and tells you what kind of information a medic will need to help you on the radio and so on. Away from the Solent, I guess we are all sailing at least hours from help.
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Sounds like the Ship Captain's Medical Guide to some extent. Although that also tells you to refrigerate (specifically not freeze) a body, which is going to be tricky on the average yacht :).

Most of the Ship Captain's Guide is not directly useful to European-coastal yachts - for the less serious stuff you'll stick it out until you can see a doctor ashore, for the more serious stuff it's a lifeboat / helicopter job so you're stabilising someone for hours, not nursing and treating them for days. You also don't have a lot of the kit and drugs called for. But even so I find it reassuring to have the comprehensive information available - ignorance is scary.

Any idea where the name "Kurafid" comes from?

Pete
 
prv said:
Any idea where the name "Kurafid" comes from?

Pete
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It's an "in" joke. BAS personnel are called "FIDs" - the predecessor organization was the Falklands Islands Dependencies Survey, which is where it came from. So, "Cure a FID" is a reasonable name for a First Aid manual - hence Kurafid.

Freezing a body is pretty much inevitable in Antarctica - they'd get a bit whiffy in a tent, and outside is definitely freezer territory. Refrigerator temperatures are what you get in summer in warm places!

Round the West Coast, I think you would be doing well to get medical personnel on the scene within hours; even in the Clyde I'd think it could be one or two hours from realizing there might be a problem to getting a helicopter overhead. Further afield, where there is no nearby lifeboat cover, you could be looking at several hours for a helicopter in good weather, with a possibility that in bad weather when helicopters can't safely take casualties off you might have to wait for a lifeboat to come a considerable distance.

However, as you say, a lot of the advice is interesting but assumes things like a full three-stage pain management set of drugs are available - and you aren't going to get those for coastal use in the UK (it would include morphine). And although I've been trained to use an artifical airway, I don't fancy the chances of the casualty if I had to do it for real! But a lot of it is useful - and more "in-depth" than most first aid books, which rely on stopping you doing too much in case you do more harm than good.
 
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AntarcticPilot said:
Round the West Coast, I think you would be doing well to get medical personnel on the scene within hours; even in the Clyde I'd think it could be one or two hours from realizing there might be a problem to getting a helicopter overhead. Further afield, where there is no nearby lifeboat cover, you could be looking at several hours for a helicopter in good weather, with a possibility that in bad weather when helicopters can't safely take casualties off you might have to wait for a lifeboat to come a considerable distance.
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I'm sure chanelyacht will be along to give the details but I'd be surprised if anywhere on the British Isles required more than an hours wait for a Helicopter and it's not often they let the weather stop them airlifting someone that needs it.
 
Jon,
Last time I did this, 2010, I chose to go to Warsash Maritime College to do the MFA on Board cert. At that time it seemed good value for money as I think I got 3 days for about 200 squid. They also let me self certify for the hours on board requirement as its essentially a professional mariners, MCA/STCW, certificate, rather than RYA, that you get.

The course was good, we had a range of students from many areas of maritime practice - superyachts to supertankers. It could have been done in 2 days if they'd wanted to but I dont think thats how the industry is structured. We had an afternoon of exercises in which each team of 4 was given a situation to deal with - mine got a chefs assistant scalded by hot soup - MarkB's comment afterwards was that he would have instructed someone to fetch lots of bread to deal with the soup :)

Did it stick? Perhaps, as I remember more bits from that course than previous RYA one day wonders. Perhaps the slower pace does allow more to sink in.
 
RobbieW said:
Jon,
Last time I did this, 2010, I chose to go to Warsash Maritime College to do the MFA on Board cert. At that time it seemed good value for money as I think I got 3 days for about 200 squid. They also let me self certify for the hours on board requirement as its essentially a professional mariners, MCA/STCW, certificate, rather than RYA, that you get.

The course was good, we had a range of students from many areas of maritime practice - superyachts to supertankers. It could have been done in 2 days if they'd wanted to but I dont think thats how the industry is structured. We had an afternoon of exercises in which each team of 4 was given a situation to deal with - mine got a chefs assistant scalded by hot soup - MarkB's comment afterwards was that he would have instructed someone to fetch lots of bread to deal with the soup :)

Did it stick? Perhaps, as I remember more bits from that course than previous RYA one day wonders. Perhaps the slower pace does allow more to sink in.
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Robbie

Thanks for that.

Having been teaching adults - from their 20's to their 60's and from a range of educational backgrounds and widely different inherent abilities - precision craft skills for the last ten years, I've got a reasonable handle on just how long it takes for basic understandings and physical techniques to really sink in! The key is gradual repetition of the principles across a range of practical scenarios for several months. Unfortunately one-day 1st Aid courses pack too much information into a single intense day, with the result that virtually all of it is immediately forgotten! That is why I'm interested in doing at least a 3-day course.

FWIW, I did an intensive 3-day one-to-one advanced motorcycling course a couple of summers ago with a retired police motorcyclist: completely transformed my riding, and when I got on the bike last weekend for the first time since in months I found myself automatically 'in the zone'. That's what I'm after!

Jon
 
FWIW the St John's Ambulance manual on First Aid is pretty good. I keep a copy on board and even do a bit of revision from time to time.

I can do CPR and have had the training but, if I am are out at sea, it's unlikely that CPR alone is going to save somebody.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
It's an "in" joke. BAS personnel are called "FIDs" - the predecessor organization was the Falklands Islands Dependencies Survey, which is where it came from. So, "Cure a FID" is a reasonable name for a First Aid manual - hence Kurafid.
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And here's me thinking it's some terribly profound Inuit word :). OK, wrong end of the planet I know.

Pete
 
>is that after each one I seem to forget everything except something about an elephant.


We took detailed notes but if you don't want to do that record the course with a small digital sound recorder.
 
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Forgetting is a problem. That is one of the reasons First Aid certificates have a 3 year lifetime.

Why not arrange to do a 1-day course, RYA or otherwise, every year rather than a 3 day course every 3 years? That would help keep the memory refreshed and the information up-to-date.
 
Thistle said:
Forgetting is a problem. That is one of the reasons First Aid certificates have a 3 year lifetime.

Why not arrange to do a 1-day course, RYA or otherwise, every year rather than a 3 day course every 3 years? That would help keep the memory refreshed and the information up-to-date.
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That is an incredibly sensible idea!
 
Woodlouse said:
I'm sure chanelyacht will be along to give the details but I'd be surprised if anywhere on the British Isles required more than an hours wait for a Helicopter and it's not often they let the weather stop them airlifting someone that needs it.
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Hmm...

Helo coverage is very much dictated by weather, other jobs on, the thing not throwing a warning light at the wrong time, etc. Swell can prevent a lift, especially from yachts - that big stick thing waving around isn't helpful ;)

The RNLI's commitment is to reach any casualty within 50 miles of the UK shore within 2 hours - hence the change to the 25 knot fleet.
 
chanelyacht said:
Hmm...

Helo coverage is very much dictated by weather, other jobs on, the thing not throwing a warning light at the wrong time, etc. Swell can prevent a lift, especially from yachts - that big stick thing waving around isn't helpful ;)

The RNLI's commitment is to reach any casualty within 50 miles of the UK shore within 2 hours - hence the change to the 25 knot fleet.
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With, of course, the proviso that the closest lifeboat isn't already on a shout, perhaps in the opposite direction. Murphy's Law suggests that this will happen! On the West Coast of Scotland, I could easily be 50 miles from the nearest station, and the next nearest might well be the wrong side of a tidal gate; even in an emergency it would take a bold coxswain to take a boat through some of them. I could easily be 3-4 hours from medical help. And I mean help more highly qualified than the yacht crew is - at least full paramedic skills. I don't know what training lifeboat and helicopter crews have, but surely their primary job in this situation is to get a casualty to a hospital ASAP. But if ASAP is maybe 6 hours off (from Mayday to Casualty department) - which is feasible, given the figures quoted - then we'd better have enough training to stabilize and make comfortable a casualty if it is at all feasible with the limited resources of a sailing yacht.
 
chanelyacht said:
Exactly Pete.

Basically, when carrying out CPR, if you can do more than two minutes straight, or the patient hasn't got a bruised / broken ribcage, you're not pushing enough.
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As a motorsport Club we had one of the paramedics run a full HSAW course for us a few years ago over about 10 evenings.
It was on a farm that was a good 20 mins form the nearest ambulance station.
On session we all had a resuscitation dummy each and did full CPR for 20 mins with the trainer checking that we where doing the correct technique.
We all managed to keep going for the full 20 mins and after a few minutes the poor taste jokes started to flow.
It is not to bad once you get into the rhythm.
 
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