Professional flushing of coolant systems

[henryf]

Does anyone the UK / South Coast offer a flushing service for marine engine heat exchangers etc. along the lines of this:



Indeed does flushing like that work? On the face of it looks a great service.

We've just had our CAT engines serviced and the fear of God was spread around regarding failing heat exchangers / intercoolers (or aftercoolers for our US cousins). The bill for cleaning came to an impressive £6,300 and change and if we decided to change the aftercoolers as a precaution that would run to a cool £12,000 plus change.

It should be noted at this stage that all engine temperatures are normal and engine power is still more than adequate to pull the old girl out of the water at 30 knots plus with a clean bottom.

I do accept that there is a large element of mark up for using the CAT main dealers here in the UK. Raw water impellers were quoted at £650 each (but not required although once again replacement was gently suggested on the basis of age, belt & braces etc.) They are available in the US for £170 a pair, quite a saving over £1,300. I appreciate you need to ship & pay duty. If you assume £UK for $US landed that would take it to £235 a pair. UK sourced they are about £175 each.

Henry

 

[jrudge]

I would guess anywhere would do it. I had mine done in Cala Dor for E800 cash, but as far as I know most engineering firms offer it.

The kit is a bucket with a tap in the bottom, a pump, some adapters and a bottle of Rydlyme ( or in Mallorca acid from the supermarket at E1 per litre).

It is also recommended to flush Air Con condensers in the same way per my AC manual.

 

[longjohnsilver]

£650 for an impeller that you can buy for £85 plus some tax etc tells its own story. I’d certainly be looking elsewhere for any other work you need doing.

 

[Portofino]

They work on removing scale where the stuff goes .Thats a given .

But part of the expensive strip down rational is not only to access the tube stacks for removal and cleaning bath , but to replace the various rubber seals .
The seals develop a set with time and heat cycles and lose there effectiveness .

It’s the CAC - Charge Air Cooler that’s the bogey - end up with water where it’s should not be and it will get expensive very soon . if you are lucky symptoms of valve poor fit corrosion, unlucky water sucked in = bang bent rods .

The above applies to all main engines manufacturers.

Transfer of fluids from the seawater cooler is treatable , not so catastrophic I,am talking Only seal failure in the CAC here .

Specifically with CAT , they have had issues well documented revolving around corrosion in the CAC,s
Dissimilar metals , salt water , inability of the zincs to adequately protect when the system drains down , lack of seal renewal actually exacerbates the prob with CAT as the leak starts with a seep it corrodes the grove(s) the rubber o rings / seals fit - sos making renewal if elected later on more difficult.
CAT recommend replace the whole CAC every 6 years , It’s kinda a throw away part lifed .

Background here
https://forums.cat.com/t5/Cat-Products/C32-Aftercooler-Failures/td-p/3630

https://forums.cat.com/t5/Engine-Ro...ds-have-Cracks-between-Valve-seats/td-p/72727

Henry think IMS bearing in a 996

 

[superheat6k]

For that sort of money it would be simpler and cheaper to install a fresh water flushing system to use after engine has been used and it being laid up for a few days (please note such a system would require careful design to prevent inadvertent flooding of an engine, and should only be used with the engine running to allow the flushing water to pass right through the system, and wash out the exhaust too. On the air side there might be a slow build up of oily dirt that will reduce efficiency of the air flow to the engine. However, a makers requirement to replace such a major component every 6 years suggest to me the maker needs to review how they are making these heat exchangers. Cupro nickel is not often used as brass is far cheaper, but is resistant to galvanic corrosion. EJ Bowman use Cupro Nickel as standard.

 

[Portofino]

It should be noted at this stage that all engine temperatures are normal and engine power is still more than adequate to pull the old girl out of the water at 30 knots plus with a clean bottom.
Henry

Here’s a piece from an American forum

—————//————————

I did not mention that we were surveying Cat c12's which are basically 3196's. Tim Caruso scoped the aftercoolers and found signs of raw water damage on both engines. He could not scope risers and turbo's because plugs were rust welded which told him they probably had never been removed. Now, these were engines that were supposed to have had open check book maintenance. The stb was the worst and needed an o/h the port was suspect and would require pulling coolers for cleaning and testing to further inspect the valves, if they show rust and pitting then pull head to check cylinders if needed. The oil analysis confirmed Tim's concerns with high metal in the stb, the port was within spec but had rust in the dipstick tube which is a sign of high sodium in oil , it needed further investigation. During seatrial readings on both engines were within spec. My point being you cannot just rely on hooking a computer to the engine taking readings. Make the broker get all invoices for maintenance before spending money surveying. If no invoices...it did not happen. Had I hired the engine surveyor the broker wanted me to hire...maybe as much as $80k surprise. Good luck...hope all goes well.

—————//—————————

Might be worth at least starting an oil analysis regime looking for raised sodium especially if you have C series CAT .

 

[Portofino]

[double post deleted ]

 

[rubberduck]

We have had our new Abs 47 stripped down & put back together, renewing everything that needs it in the process, had the coolers taken apart & sent off for proper clean / refurb. Boat is eight years & didn't strictly need doing yet so I suspect I won't need to do again for at least the same period.

 

[vodzurk]

Might be mental, might not, but probably is...

... and our mobo is a toy in comparison...

... so sorry for suggesting utter garbage...

Each year i intend to unplug the seawater cooling intake, and pour 4L of Pepsi in (disconnect, hook up a funnel, start engine, pour 4L in, stop engine)... then leave 24 hours, before reattaching the hoses and flushing it out.

I don't know how effective it was in pushing our running temperature down as a few things were done at once... but from this video... it suggests it might have a small effect on loosening chunky bits from the cooling block...

The Phosphoric Acid in it is what seems to be key (so no diet cola). The cheapness means I can do this every year, hopefully improving the condition over a few years, and never getting clogged .

 

[rubberduck]

Put a coin in some coke, then put it on the ceiling. Following day try to get it off, not sure I want this in my engine.

 

[henryf]

Sorry for the delay in responding. Have been busy then in transit. Finally settled down for a while and having a catch up.

I thought the C12 charge cooler issues had been resolved in more recent engines. I know in the states there was talk of a class action lawsuit covering earlier engines.

As the engines are relatively new I have remained loyal to the UK main dealer but I think once past 5 years old it is time to investigate alternative arrangements. Not having a Solent base means paying for travel currently for every job which seems madness given the Solent isn't a quiet back water when it comes to UK boating.

I just thought the flushing systems seemed like a good idea. I shall investigate the replacement cost of charge air coolers / intercoolers. If they are indeed " there doesn't seem much point in wasting time and effort.

Henry