Processes in buying a boat

[Gludy]

Whilst the standard thing, I know, is to put a deposit down and commit to a boat before sea trial - it seems a bit strange to me that you have to decide if you like a boat or not without ever having a try of it.

I would have thought a more logical order would be:-

Do your own self inspectipon etc for stage 1 happiness with boat.

Agree a price subject to sea trial then survey.

Do the sea trial.

If OK, then pay deposit and commit subject to survey.

What's wrong with that order of things?

What am I missing in the above approach?

Why not?


Paul

 

[Renegade_Master]

"Do your own self inspection etc for stage 1 happiness with boat".

"Agree a price subject to sea trial then survey".

Hi Gludy I agree that seeing a boat then making an offer is a good thing which is what I did on my last boat. However that was on the Thames in a brokerage berth.
My current purchase is of a boat in the Med (Menorca) so short of flying out there already and maybe wasting my time by dicovering a sad looking boat on arrival, I have had to make the offer (bit lower than asking price naturally) then put doen deposit subject to survey.
Now if next weeks survey results in me not going ahead then the broker pays me the money back.

 

[Gludy]

Yes- but unless you have experience of actually helming the boat p being on it at sea for a short while, how can you really make any assesment of how much you like it?

Are you making an offer on a boat you have not seen? Relaying totally on the survey?


Paul

 

[jfm]

I see no reason why you cannot do it the way you say, esp if the boat is in water not hard standing. Go on, give it a try.

All the broker might worry about is that you are getting a free day's boating on a £1m toy. In which case get your bank to write and say you have sufficient funds to buy a boat at that price

Or pay the deposit (and make sure it is to the broker AS STAKEHOLDER not as AGENT of the seller) but amend the contract so it is subject to your satisfaction with sea trial, such satisfaction to be determined by you in your absolute discretion without obligation on you to provide reasons or justification for refusal

 

[Renegade_Master]

Arguably yes but I do know a bit about the boats history, and the boat is apt for the purpose i.e. the sea school. I have faith in the surveyor who will do a very extensive report including checking the RYA coded equipment for charter, (already coded) and take diggy pics of everything. In the event I am still not satisfied I will withdraw from the deal. Anyway most boats of any one model look the same the crunch is the condition of the parts in total.

 

[Gludy]

I can easily prove to the brokers satisfaction that I am able to purchase and serious - or I can do the deposit and a refund if for any reason I reject the boat on a sea trial.

I can understand that no one wants to waste a few hours on an expensive boat - but my serious intentions are easily demonstrated or proved.

Its a good point you made about the broker being a stakeholder not an agent.






Paul

 

[Gludy]

Are you able to withdraw based on your opinion? Surely its up to the surveyor and his report?



Paul

 

[Renegade_Master]

Like I said the surveyors report will be crucial, however the decision is mine in the end. If the report is ok I will go ahead, and even then I could withdraw.

 

[Gludy]

You have the final say - so that makes sense.


It can be an expensive 'time consuming task' tripping around the Med looking at boats.

A|re you bringing your boat back to the UK?


Paul

 

[ari]

Make sure the brokerage agreement and deposit is subject to satisfactory sea trial and survey, that way if you are not satisfied with the sea trial you are able to withdraw.

Always worked ok for me in the past.

I wonder how many sea trials per boat sale they get asked for in the summer compared to winter...???

;-)

 

[Renegade_Master]

No the boat will be used as a sea school & charter boat based on Costa Del Sol near Estepona. We will have two boats one the F36 and a Fairline 50, should start taking bookings for April / May

 

[c_j]

Being able to withdraw if the surveyor found no faults with the boat (or at least no faults that the owner would not pay to have put right) is not the normal contract. Normally if you withdraw at that stage then you will see you deposit severely eaten into.

But going back to the original subject my initial response was how else would you buy a boat?

Having said that I have not sea trialed prior to survey either of my last boats, but surely that is not normal?

CJ
chris@stone.uk.com

www.stone.uk.com

 

[Renegade_Master]

Good point CJ if nothing at all wrong with the survey then I wouldnt want to pull out. Mind you up to that point its not cost the vendor anything only cost the buyer for survey etc, so its in the buyers interests to go ahead.

If you did pull out for no reason after a clean survey, then the buyer would maintain that he could have had a geniune buyer in the meantime. Spec the small print covers such

 

[jfm]

Take a second look at words in contracts

Ari: with respect, language like "subject to satisfactory sea trial" is very bad in a contract, if you're doing what Gludy is trying to do. I mean, WHOSE satisfaction do those words relate to? What if Gludy didn't like the boat, for personal - even capricious - reasons, but the seller and broker believe the seatrial was jolly satisfactory?

IMHO say exactly what you mean in these contracts. ie "subject to the satisfaction of Gludy such satisfaction to be determined by him in his absolute discretion etc etc". Then no arguments. If you dont like the preprinted broker contract get your pen out and change it

All imho

 

[ari]

Re: Take a second look at words in contracts

Subject to satisfactory sea trial to my mind means exactly that. Am I satisfied with the sea trial? If I don't like the way the boat handles then I'm not satisfied and the sale is subject to me being so. Simple. I can understand your concern though, always worth confirming the point with the broker.

I totally understand the brokers (and owners) reason for wanting a deposit first before going to all the time expense and trouble of a sea trial, but at the same time I can hardly be expected to commit 100% without trying it. Subject to satisfactory sea trial means they get their deposit, and I get the right to turn the boat down if I don't like it.

 

[Gludy]

"make sure it is to the broker AS STAKEHOLDER not as AGENT of the seller"

What is the difference.The standard contract the brokers hand out puts the broker down as Agent of the seller not as stakeholder.

I imagine a stakeholder has aduty in law to both parties whilst an 'agentof the seller' only has a duty to the seller. Is that right?

Paul

 

[BarryD]

In the winter season mayber as you say, but in summer you'd get a lot of freeloaders. Prehaps not so much a deposit but a sign of good faith paying a £1K or the like on a credit card prior to the sea trial should be sufficient.

Game (almost) over...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I agree with you entirely. You can walk into a car showroom and book a test drive without putting down a deposit. Why cant you do it with a boat that costs many times more? In fairness some dealers (as opposed to brokers) will readily arrange a test run without any offer.
Personally, when I've sold boats I've always been happy to give prospective buyers a test run after asking a few questions about their ability to buy
The trouble with doing the seatrial after the offer acceptance is that you are already some way along the buying process and it takes some fortitude to walk away from the boat unless there are major problems
If you are interested in buying a particular boat but you are unsure about whether the sea performance will suit you, I would just explain the situation to the broker/dealer and, if he's any good and the owner's keen to sell, he should be able to arrange a test run without any offer

 

[Tantalus]

Here in the US it's typical to be required to place a deposit upon offer. Offer being subject to satisfactory sea trial and/or survey. Simply seen as a way to separate the potential buyers from those looking for a free sail. Offer can always be re-negotiated based on the trial and survey.
Of course...I imagine there is the occasional dispute over what has constituted a satisfactory sea trial. If the potential buyer spends 3-4 hrs with a silly assed grin on his face during the sea trial and then declares it unsatisfactory I can imagine a seller/agent pissed off enough to want to try keeping the deposit.
Some sellers/agents require the sea trial be accomplished by a qualified individual separate from the potential buyer...of course the buyer is along. Having the "qualified individual" conduct the trial gives an additional security to the seller that the reasons for a negative decision are not frivilous.

 

[jfm]

Re: Take a third look at words in contracts

I beg to differ Ari. "Satisfaction" is a subjective concept. The words do not make it clear whose[/] satisfaction we're talking about. You might think it means the buyer's, but good luck to you if one day an awkward seller whose boat ran quite well on the trial (satisfactory in his view) refuses to give you your 30 grand back..... Look at words the way someone else (someone awkward, holding your money so with a possession = 9/10ths advantage, and disinclined to give it back) could interpret them, not how you think they should be interpreted.