Problems with Maintenence advice

[Bigplumbs]

While the help and advice that a person can obtain from this forum is excellent there is an inherent problem that I feel exists.

The personnel wealth of people on this and other forums I think varies from what I would call super rich to those on a very tight budget, This also often corresponds (but not always) with whether people do their own work on their boats or pay it done.

The issue is that when asking advice about maintenance and its frequency I feel that some of the answers from those who are very well of are not that helpful to those who are rather more poor. One can only guess or speculate how well off people are who give the advice so it makes things difficult.

An example was the other day a person (who I think, but don't know) is rich said 'It is not worth the few quid' to risk it. I felt that I needed to ask what he considered to be a few quid but felt that that was rude. To many for example £50 is quite a lot of money but others would not stoop down to pick it up. Also if you are rich and pay things done. Saying I replace things every year is easy but not necessarily the best advice to a person who is on a budget.

I do not know the answer to his but I am interested if others feel the same.

Dennis

 

[julians]

You do get both ends of the spectrum on here, but thats a good thing, and i think most people asking for advice can recieve it from both ends of the spectrum and decide for themselves what to do.

Its not a problem imo.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Good point.
I do all my own maintenance (except any engineering or welding). I've learnt a lot about a lot of tasks and I enjoy the sense of being involved and satisfaction of "I done that !"
I also know that the job has been done and how; not bodged and covered-over.
Very reassuring when at sea and it's getting nasty.

My budget is very tight and I dread a really big quote for essential work. So £50 of my time and money is a no brainer if the alternative means getting-in a

convenient but costly "professional".
​

Also, the available suppliers and services up here are much, much less than in the much more populated areas.

It would be nice to be so well-off that a click of the fingers and the rustle of the cheque book was all my maintenance and services needed - but reality rules - ok!

 

[[2068]]

I will always give advice based on what Volvo / boat manufacturers suggest, plus bitter personal experience from the past 20 years.

For example ... Eltrim trim tab bellows ... should I change them every two years?
Well, you could risk saving that money for another year, but if water gets inside, that’s a several hundred pound bill.
Been there.

Should I change those belts?
Again, you could risk it, but the double alternator / water pump belts on an AD31 could fail and cause an overheat.
Been there too ... that one was a £4500 bill.

Ultimately I have no real idea what a posters budget might be other than the size / age of the boat that they write about or is in their profile, but even that can be quite misleading.

I’ll say what I’d suggest from a technical viewpoint, then it’s up to the person asking to decide if funds / priorities mean that it gets done now, later or never. But I have found that trying to avoid small bills can cause much larger ones.

.

 

[[2068]]

And while we aren't on the subject of anodes, this is Neale Byart's advice from a while back - he knows a thing a two about keeping old boats going on a tight budget.

"Normal suggestions are when 50% wasted. I guess the second 50% will go alot quicker than the first 50% due to surface area.
I agree that they will still be working when 90% wasted, but with just 10% left you need to keep a very close eye on them.
If you find yourself with no anodes left, something else more expensive will be eroding.
In reality for most it comes down to changing them when the boat is lifted. The cost of the lift normally makes it uneconomical to try and squeeze an extra few months out of the anodes.
The way I do it is this: the boat is lifted once a year for antifoul and other maintenance. If the anodes are more than 40% wasted at that time, I replace them. Less than 40%, I give em a good clean and leave them another year.
For the sake of a few pounds, it just doesn't seem worth the risk."

 

[Boat2016]

I will only own a boat that I know I can comfortably afford to maintain to a high standard rather that buying something for a lot more money and having to run on a tight budget which would mean maintenance was not done as often as I would like.

 

[Bigplumbs]

I will only own a boat that I know I can comfortably afford to maintain to a high standard rather that buying something for a lot more money and having to run on a tight budget which would mean maintenance was not done as often as I would like.

Good example of what I meant in my first post. Also use of the phrase High Standard very subjective, Use of the phrase 'lot of money' also relative. Do you see the issues

 

[Bigplumbs]

I will always give advice based on what Volvo / boat manufacturers suggest, plus bitter personal experience from the past 20 years.

For example ... Eltrim trim tab bellows ... should I change them every two years?
Well, you could risk saving that money for another year, but if water gets inside, that’s a several hundred pound bill.
Been there.

Should I change those belts?
Again, you could risk it, but the double alternator / water pump belts on an AD31 could fail and cause an overheat.
Been there too ... that one was a £4500 bill.

Ultimately I have no real idea what a posters budget might be other than the size / age of the boat that they write about or is in their profile, but even that can be quite misleading.

I’ll say what I’d suggest from a technical viewpoint, then it’s up to the person asking to decide if funds / priorities mean that it gets done now, later or never. But I have found that trying to avoid small bills can cause much larger ones.

.

Do you feel 'What Boat Manufactures suggest' is driven by good practice or their desire to sell maintenance materials and services. I wonder

Dennis

 

[[2068]]

Anodes, maybe £50?
If the anodes stop dissolving, it's your outdrive that starts dissolving instead.
Lower unit for a DP-E drive is ... £4224?

I think I see the issues

.

 

[julians]

Dennis - how would you like people to respond to maintenance questions?

People just respond based on their own experience, its up to the reader to decide how relevent that experience is to them.

If someone says they change the anodes yearly regardless of condition then that is what they do, they can also recommend that others do the same, someone else ina different circumstance does not have to do the same.

 

[[2068]]

Do you feel 'What Boat Manufactures suggest' is driven by good practice or their desire to sell maintenance materials and services. I wonder

Dennis

I do most of my own servicing, so they don't get me there.
If you can find parts of equivalent specification and quality, then that can help with the costs: buying the VP stuff is an easy way to get it right.
But generally the manufacturers recommendations are from engineers - what's needed to keep the engine going.

....I'm sure I saw something a while back about making new anodes by melting down the old ones!

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Dennis - how would you like people to respond to maintenance questions?

People just respond based on their own experience, its up to the reader to decide how relevent that experience is to them.

If someone says they change the anodes yearly regardless of condition then that is what they do, someone else ina different circumstance does not have to do the same.

+1

 

[petem]

With anodes, I assume there's always the possibility that something unexpected could happen that could accelerate wastage and therefore it seems rather risky to me to scrimp on changing them. I'm happy to scrimp on other things, perhaps getting a second season out of a anti foul, but you've always got to be mindful of the potential consequences.

Regarding budget, I'm not particularly well off compared to some around here and have cut my cloth accordingly (only owning a third of a boat). Our boat is properly maintained but I'm more than happy shopping around for parts to save a few quid. And when we come to sell, I hope that our boat will be among the best in terms of condition and we'll be asking top $ for it.

What is it they say, "A stitch in time saves nine"?

Dennis, remind us, how many boats do you own ?

 

[Bouba]

Best practices can cost a fortune in money and time. Even tracking down people to pay to do the work is a chore.
While there is a huge discrepancy in worth, and boat size, on this forum. I think you will find that donning overalls is a universal trait, out of love if not money or to make sure the job is done properly. Look at who gives the advice, it appears to me to come disproportionally from those with larger boats and it looks like hands on experience.
It’s not always money but age is the limiting factor, I don’t pay someone to clean my boat because I’m rich but because it would cost more to repair my shoulders.
This forum is a treasure and therefore priceless

 

[Solent Sailor]

Good question. I am the sort of boat owner who does as much maintenance and improvement as I can without professional help. However, I know my limitations and I wouldn't hesitate to call in the professionals where necessary. I'm fairly handy around boats so most things (time permitting) I can do but anything gas-related or something complex with electricals or mechanics and I will at the very least, call someone for advice even if it means paying for it.

Of course, I've had incidents where I've paid for work to be done and found it to be of a lower standard than I could do myself, or (in one case) was asked to pay a well known Hamble electrical specialist for visting my boat, confirming that the type of system I told him I had was the system I had and doing precisely nothing to rectify the fault that I told him I had! That one didn't get paid. You learn from this and build up a trusted list of specialists.

Trying to save £50 here or there is worthwhile in boating - but it depends on what. If it were a £200 for polishing my topsides, I'd just get on and find the time to do it myself. If it was £1000 to do something regarding the engine, I'd be on the phone immediately. Its about prioritization.

 

[[2068]]

Dennis, remind us, how many boats do you own ?

Ha ha ha, I'm not in that exclusive "multiple boat owning" club

 

[kashurst]

I tend to take a slightly jaundiced view to the manufacturer's recommendations and especially some of the "engineers" who have crossed my boats path over the last 18 years and six boats. I usually do most of my own maintenance, because I like to know it's been done properly and any little leaks rattles get attended to before they become a big problem.
Parts wise I always use genuine oil filters, fuel injectors and fuel/air filters, simply because the cost of them failing could mean an engine rebuild. Unless I find the original manufacturer if the part. But I do change based on condition not necessarily annualy. Other that I am quite happy to use equivalents, always assuming if they failed it would be annoying, I might break down, but I wouldn't have to pull the engine to bits.
I leave rubber water pump impellers for @ 3 years, I used to follow the perceived wisdom of taking them out over the winter, but my experience is that does more harm than good.
Belts I change based on hours/condition and just carry a spare set (the last ones I took off)
However outdrives are a different thing, built to high tolerances, surface finishes, very material sensitive components etc. With them you don't have any choice but OEM parts to be sure, as any seal failure could mean a wrecked drive.

 

[Portofino]

Dennis - how would you like people to respond to maintenance questions?

People just respond based on their own experience, its up to the reader to decide how relevent that experience is to them.

If someone says they change the anodes yearly regardless of condition then that is what they do, they can also recommend that others do the same, someone else ina different circumstance does not have to do the same.

+2 now .
Dennis you could qualify the Q by being a bit more specific to stop time waster answers .
Like using the anode Q ,

Add stuff like how long could I get out of them , what’s the max time they last , What shortens them ,
I ve seen the 50 % rule banded about - is that necessary and if so why ?

Just “ how long before change “
Which is basically what you said in the other thread got a couple of sail drives just answering that 5 years .

I put the time as that was the Q .
Did not put why ? As you did not ask
But added the cost thinking ? Actually thought it useful .tbo

Here the reason why the parts they protect are just too dear to allow to fail by inadequate anoxic protection .
Here’s and old image file that shows the stern gear and just about the hull anodes ,The hull anodes are those disks in the centre of the transom.
There’s another thread I,am managing to annoy folks on about corrosion of cooling system s / longevity/ etc its to do with fitting fresh water rinse .

https://imgur.com/a/Kle6R


Those massive €70 anodes each protect my engines all the metal bits .Period !
So it’s daft to not follow accepted advice re refresh / replacement.
The 50 % rule is not just a surface area thing , that’s an over simplistic view ( good to grasp make folks change ) .
It’s more to do with deep chemistry and the kg,s the weight the mass of anodic Protection , the relative number of lets call them particles ( not just electrons ) need to fully protect what the anode is attached to .

Regarding the figure I gave €325 , well that’s it every year .
Buts it’s realitive to the rest of the notional and real boat budget and seems to me a small “insurance price “I hope to pay to stave off huge bills .
Like I don,t want to keep replacing the prop shaft S steel , props , or get involved with any bolt on engine components like coolers which are still healthy btw ( 2003 ) oringinals —-

Yes I do diy with the help of an engineer mate who gets a bus-mans hol

Previous boat KAD 300 had broken belt and air in the fuel to sort out at sea.
Just think being handy or learning to be handy on the tools is good seamanship imho .
Aside personally this is me - 1/2 the ownership experience is actually fiddling about and the hunt / chase of learning about the tech side .Its a hobby btw and as enjoyable as actually using the boat .
We use genuine parts and the correct spec fluids too .
Bigger jobs other than routine service annually I,am resigned to official MAN agents .

 

[Nigelpickin]

Understand the reason behind your q and would say that the forum benefits greatly from having a broad group of contributors - from 50m yacht owning, custard eating billionaires to raggies with withdrawal symptoms.

I recon that you’ve been around here for long enough to know the ‘money no object’ forumites and to take the reply in context. I mean if you can afford a 50’ motor boat then a new set of anodes every 12 months is relatively inexpensive.

I imagine that you’d get a more grounded response on the PBO forum.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Understand the reason behind your q and would say that the forum benefits greatly from having a broad group of contributors - from 50m yacht owning, custard eating billionaires to raggies with withdrawal symptoms.

I recon that you’ve been around here for long enough to know the ‘money no object’ forumites and to take the reply in context. I mean if you can afford a 50’ motor boat then a new set of anodes every 12 months is relatively inexpensive.

I imagine that you’d get a more grounded response on the PBO forum.

I'm sure there must be a joke in there about being 'grounded' with reference to replacing your anodes, but I can't quite get there...