Problems with buyer

[fjweaver]

In November we agreed a price to sell subject to survey (private sale). There were a couple of points on the survey meant that we agreed to pay for the work to be done once we received a deposit. That was all fine & the work has been done.

We're now at the final stages but the buyer only wants to pay 50% of the outstanding price now - followed by the other 50% when the boat arrives at the destination.
The reason being is so that he can make sure that the boat (22ft) is seaworthy & the engine is ok. He says you wouldn't buy a car without testing it first but I said that's what the surveyor's for and that's just how things are done with boats.

The chap is a novice and has lined up a skipper to sail it from Southampton round to St Catherine's dock (!).

The dealings so far have been fine but I can see this becoming an issue. I have to accept that he might decide to pull out as I don't want the boat to go without full payment.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable but in a way I can also see his point. Where do we stand with regards the deposit as we have had to pay for work + hardstanding while the deal has been going on.

 

[bedouin]

If the boat was sold "subject to survey" and you have agreed the restitution of all points raised by the survey then there is a contract that is binding on both sides. If the buyer wishes to pull out he would be liable for your reasonable costs and is probably not entitled to his deposit back.

Equally, once the survey has been completed - the buyer cannot change his mind even if further defects do come to light (provided of course that you haven't deliberately mislead him). There can then be no justification for a 50%now, 50% later deal. I would be very suspicious of his motives, clearly he is not going to walk away from the deal having paid 50% up front, so perhaps he is intending to get the boat round to St Caths, and then blackmail you into accepting less.

If he genuinely wants a sea-trial it would be reasonable to let him have a day sail from it's present location provided that he paid the costs of launching the boat, and recovering it back to the hard standing again. I don't think you can be expected to do any more than that.

 

[miket]

Always more difficult with a private sale.

What do you have in writing?
Often it is all a bit airy fairy, and then very difficult to enforce.

Normal sequence is:
Boat inspected by purchaser.
Price agreed subject to sea trial and survey. Deposit taken (usually 10% odd).
(at this point a broker would make the purchaser sign the bill of sale, which then only allows him to back out on something fairly major in the survey or sea trial)
Survey done within x days, usually less than 2 weeks, and if all well a sea trial follows. I would actually do this the other way round.

Balance of agreed price then handed over and banked.
When funds are accepted by your bank as cleared, title passes.

Under no circumstances accept the sea trial as Southampton to St Kat's. That is ridiculous!! A quick trip down Southampton Water is more than sufficient.

Do not trust anyone. Sad as it may seem.

 

[david_e]

A laymans view

Assuming that this was not part of the agreed sale terms then quite simply he should have thought about it before. You could be entitled to not only keep his deposit but get him to pay for the work done as well if he backs out, you shouldn't at this stage be expected to alter the terms of the sale in this way unless you want to. There are risks involved in transporting the vehicle and sailing it as well, as soon as he has paid for it, the risk transfers to him, before that it is down to you.

You need a solution to your problem, which is re-assuring him that the boat is OK. His survey should give him quite a bit comfort, after that if your ad was a pack of lies then he could sue you for that, tell him this, then explain the consequences of not proceeding after highliting the number of potential buyers you have turned away in the interim.

Tell him that you are an honourable chap and you wouldn't sell him a boat that was unseaworthy. See how he reacts, be surprised if he calls you a liar.

 

[Trevor_swfyc]

On no account part with the boat until you have 100% of the agreed amount. As has already been stated you do not have to go into fresh negotiations on price that has been agreed. The survey which the buyer had is his guarantee that the boat is sea worthy his redress should be with the surveyer if the boat / engine is faulty. You have had the work done so you satisfied the terms of the sale agreed by both parties.
Another point is if you accepted half payment the boat would no longer belong to you how would you get the remainder of the payment if he the buyer claimed he was not going to give you any more money. Also if you took the boat back you could find yourself in court for theft of what was your boat.
I would tell the buyer you have taken advice and cannot part with the boat until payment is made in full, but to show good faith you would run up the engine to show no damage (Frost) has occured since the survey.
If this is not satisfactory you have either a time waster or possible a con so be careful very careful.
Good Luck
Trevor.

 

[wishbone]

I seem to remember a similar case on the radio (Eagle Beagle). If the agreed contract deviates, ie goal post’s moved you a quite right to hold your ground, if the time limit’s have been extended by the buyer causing more cost to you, you could sue for breach of contract and make a claim, providing you have kept to your end of the bargain, and done everything possible to make the sale go through.

Wishbone

I would DEFINATLY not let the boat LEAVE SITE OR MOVE until paid for in full as agreed terms of contract.

We lost our full deposit on a deal because we changed our minds, ho hum! But that was our choice....

 

[paulrossall]

You must definately stand your ground, and you have no obligation to do any trial at all as you did not agree to when you agreeed the terms of sale. Just imagine what could go wrong with some "Skipper" taking your boat out to sea. Do not be persuaded to do anything other than get the money in your bank before you pass title to the boat. You could offer to have a run out with the new owner when his cheque has cleared which is when you would hand over the keys. You would be OK with a Building Society cheque probably but I would only be available to take one on a day the banks are open so I could pay it in immediately and get it on Special clearance. I would give receipt and bill of sale subject passing title to the boat only when funds are received in your Bank Account

 

[BootleBumtrinket]

Bonkers

To want to sail that voyage in an unfound (according to him) 22 foot boat in January implies a deficiency in the marbles department. Tell him to take a flying fish. And fry it if necessary.

 

[billmacfarlane]

The buyer is out of order . He's originally made the decision to buy the boat without these extra preconditions and on no account let him take the boat without full payment . Imagine the scenario if the skipper takes the boat to London and the buyer changes his mind. The buyer should have decided on whether the boat's seaworthy or not on both a test sail and a surveyor's report. The buyer must pay in full before the boat is handed over to the delivery skipper or refund him his money.

 

[fjweaver]

Thanks everyone - that\'s been a really great help

.

 

[fjweaver]

finally got agreement!

Many thanks to everyone for all the input - being paid up early next week.

Definitely a lesson learnt in having everything written & agreed up front so there's no grey areas on deposits, dates etc

Frank

 

[Bladerunner]

Re: Bonkers

Flying fish available from James the Fish a company based in Pershore, Worcestershire ! Not tried them myself. )

Tu ne quaesieris, scire nefas