Portofino
Well-Known Member
Was thinking Starbucks
Unpicking this web looks tricky -http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Arnault
Unpicking this web looks tricky -http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Arnault
Princess Yachts announces £17.9m profit
- Thread starter adey
- Start date
wakeup
Well-Known Member
You can add Google via Ireland to the list.
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petem
Well-Known Member
I agree its an odd thing to say. Perhaps they are trying to differentiate themselves from the competition? Would be interesting to know what product development they capitalize compared to SS and FL.
adey
Well-Known Member
It was a couple of years ago now that Princess bought the South Yard site at the Dockyard, for building M Class yachts.
That could explain a shift from cash to assets?
That could explain a shift from cash to assets?
jfm
Well-Known Member
just to be clear, my posts are all made having read the full accounts files at companies registry, and not just the Herald or ibi reports
jfm
Well-Known Member
Nope. No way, if you read the accounts
jfm
Well-Known Member
Similar policies at all three- it's wriitten off currently. Fairline recognise sales more slowly and prudently, by recognising when the boat is paid for and finished. Ie FL's accounting policies as I understand them would not include recognising the very large long term contract asset that princess have recognised ( which is my WHOLE point: don't take reported profit at face value; dig and find the back story)
jfm
Well-Known Member
the tax parts of this thread are very very wrong. princess is owned by a fund managed by the lvmh connected firm, and most of the LPs in it will be tax indifferent between different forms of cash extraction. This CGT vs income debate is very wide of the mark therefore
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Observer
Well-Known Member
@ JFM. Just correcting myself - I see that WP is conventionally a long term asset by definition. I should know better than to question your posts.
jfm
Well-Known Member
The asset they're recording is a debtor (and revenue of course) on a long term contract. It's then my guess that this relates to a boat build extending over a year, eg an M yacht. Feel free to guess something else but I can't think of anything else that fits all of the clues. I'm just making the observation that building M yaChts with significant absence of stage payments is kinda noteworthy isn't it? And you wouldn't want customers long in roubles - just as one example SAn Lorenzo for example are offering ( to me!) a part built boat at a biggish discount with the sales pitch being a rouble customer has paid deposits/ stage payments but now defaulted due to being short on euros/ong on roubles
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
Isn't there a note in the stat accounts explaining what the long term contract is, given that it's a big change in the BS? We have to explain everything these days.
pan
Well-Known Member
As JFM has had sight of the full accounts, and deduced the profits are likely to be within a large boat build with a contracted buyer, without stage payments, then the profit is wrapped up in both stock & a debtor! Although I appreciate the masterclass in Uk taxation & accounting policies, the reality is somewhat simpler. Big boat building is very intensive in both cash flow & company resources, whilst I am sure it can be very profitable, it can look a bit "all eggs in one basket' without stage payments, where the buyer ensures surveys at each stage, reducing the potential at the end of build for rejection by the buyer.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Now that's interesting.
Do you mean that they normally account any WIPs as revenues, on the basis of nothing else than a contract signed from some Russian folk?
If so, care to name and shame the auditing firm who signed that?
I don't know if whoever wrote IAS 18 is still alive, but if not, he/she would surely turn in his/her grave...!
...though the whole thing is actually nowhere near as interesting as the SL offer! Do tell, which model? And are you giving it a thought?
I reckon that the very same sales pitch (aside from being Real rather than Rouble involved, IIRC) used from a certain Mr.DC worked nicely, just a few years ago...
PS: re. your post #68, what I said re. CG vs. dividends was just an aside within my reply to a very generic question from DavidJ - neither meant to cover the subject extensively, nor related to Princess in any way.
I fully accept that actual cash extraction methods can be sophisticated enough to be tax indifferent.
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jfm
Well-Known Member
Nope. I found that strange and looked hard, but nope. And it's an all new item in the 31.12. 2013 b/sheet. Wasn't materially there at 31.12.12
jfm
Well-Known Member
I'm not commenting on what they normally do only because I haven't checked hard. I'm just saying that at 31.12.13 in contrast to 31.12.12 there is an all new £20m asset called something like debtor/ receivable on long term contracts. I'll screenshot it tomorrow and post, if I get timeNow that's interesting.
Do you mean that they normally account any WIPs as revenues, on the basis of nothing else than a contract signed from some Russian folk?
If so, care to name and shame the auditing firm who signed that?
I don't know if whoever wrote IAS 18 is still alive, but if not, he/she would surely turn in his/her grave...!
...though the whole thing is actually nowhere near as interesting as the SL offer! Do tell, which model? And are you giving it a thought?
I reckon that the very same sales pitch (aside from being Real rather than Rouble involved, IIRC) used from a certain Mr.DC worked nicely, just a few years ago...
PS: re. your post #68, what I said re. CG vs. dividends was just an aside within my reply to a very generic question from DavidJ - neither meant to cover the subject extensively, nor related to Princess in any way.
I fully accept that actual cash extraction methods can be sophisticated enough to be tax indifferent.
But as regards your 2nd sentence, yes, except of course the debtor may have become "blessed" by a post balance sheet event, namely the customer paying and the boat launching. Maybe they were waiting for that, hence the late accounts
It's PwC by the way; I'm not saying there is any shaming though, esp if the customer paid in 2014. As I've said, I'm just saying it makes sense to get the back story behind the reported profit rather that naively think all profit is the same quality.
The sL is perhaps your favourite -the SD92. Direct email from broker with a full SL- written doc describing the detail of the boat ( hull 16 iirc but would need to check) and saying a rouble customer default, 1/2 built, spec somewhat decided of course and big discount off list price. Under 24m LLL using thr " nosecone" method. I'm not going to buy it!
Well remembered ref my first sq78
Yes re tax. Often no sophistication is needed: investment fund capitalises the the bidco in the LBO using shareholder loan, and when they want to extract cash they take a "dividend" in the form of loan repayment. Easy Peazy.
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MapisM
Well-Known Member
I was fearing that you were going to say it's an SD92... Now, where's the drool emoticon when one needs it?
Shame that I lost one kidney almost 40 years ago in an offroad bike accident. It would have been handy to have a spare one to sell, for such masterpiece!
Could an offer to have a liveaboard crew member, together with a decent Italian cook, all FoC, possibly make you change your mind?
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
I think jfm should be screenshotting details of the SD92 instead of bits of boring old balance sheets.
This is a motorboat forum after all! Praps if our SWMBOs donated a kidney each we might be able to afford it
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Just spoke with S, she says she'll rather keep both just in case I'll ever need one.Praps if our SWMBOs donated a kidney each we might be able to afford it
And I'm pretty sure that also "your" S will find some good excuse.
Tsk, women logic... Always worried about the rainy days, rather than aiming at living fast and die young...
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
My S needs both kidneys to process the amount of wine she drinks, especially in Italy
One kidney wouldn't have the capacity
One kidney wouldn't have the capacity