Princess or Fairline?

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louisecollin

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Hi there,

I am currently doing a study on comparing Fairline Boats and Princess yachts, i would like people to share their opinions on both these companies and if you prefer one over the other, or if there is a particular boat that you have great interest in and why?

I would like this to be a debate between memebers. if you have a Fairline or a Princess then please tell me what steered you towards you choice?

Or if you have a boat from a different company then feel free to tell me what you have and why?

Thank you
 
louisecollin said:
Hi there,

I am currently doing a study on comparing Fairline Boats and Princess yachts, i would like people to share their opinions on both these companies and if you prefer one over the other, or if there is a particular boat that you have great interest in and why?

I would like this to be a debate between memebers. if you have a Fairline or a Princess then please tell me what steered you towards you choice?

Or if you have a boat from a different company then feel free to tell me what you have and why?

Thank you
Click to expand...

Hi Louise
This is tricky. First, please can you explain why you want to know? Second, folks do have their favourites among those 2 brands but to set it all out candidly involves -in part- criticism of the brand you didn't buy. I mean, the real truth might be that Mr/Ms X bought a [P or F] because he/she thinks it's a bit better built/better looking than a [P or F] but we are all so polite around here that we don't say stuff like that because it amounts to raining on lots of other people's parades. We prefer not to criticise other members choice of boat, and instead we generally agree that boat choice is "each to their own"

Another aspect is that the choice isn't all about P or F, full stop. It depends on the model. If you want a 32m boat P is definitely better cos F don't make one. If you want some other specific size the F might be head and shoulders the better boat. People tend to choose their boat size/budget and then select the brand, rather than selecting the brand first.

Anyway, more info from you would be useful
 
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Hi,

thank you for your reply.

To explain a little bit further, I am a student and am currently undergoing a disseration, my title is:

Has the luxury boating industry sustained it's luxury brand?

I decided on this title due to the recession and i want to find out whether the recession has changed any views at all?

Maybe this is a better question to ask?

thanks,

LC
 
Hi
the short answer is yes, Fairline and Princes have definitely maintained their "luxury" brand. There are differences between these two manufacturers but more on use of space and technical performance. Nobody makes "bad" boats. anyone still in the business is pretty good just like the car industry. Try looking at the french, german and italian yards and see what they have been doing over the past few years. See if you can work out their strategies regarding princess, fairline etc.
 
Hi,

Thank you, these replies are really helpful.

Ok so look at the way that thet are building boats to compete with Fairline and Princess?

Regards,

LC
 
louisecollin, I don't really understand the title of your dissertation but if you are trying to analyse whether the recession has changed the marketing strategies of the major motoboat building companies, then I would say not. If you plotted a simple price/quality matrix now and compared it to the same matrix pre-recession, you would probably put all of the major builders in the same position.
With regard to Princess and Fairline, you would probably place Fairline towards in the medium-high section for both quality and price. Princess are probably a fraction lower on price and quality (perceived quality anyway). Neither company seems to have changed its strategy much, if at all, in response to the recession other than to engage in cost cutting measures and modest innovation. Princess have started manufacturing larger boats (100ft+), I believe, on the basis that the larger end of the market has been less affected by the recession and the margins are higher. I dont believe that Fairline can follow this strategy because their inland production facility wont allow the manufacture and transport of larger boats. Princess are based in Plymouth so building larger boats and getting them to the sea is much easier.
What neither company has done, as far as I can see, is substantially reduce the price of their boats (although heavy discounting took place in 2008/9) nor have they introduced major step change innovations in terms of substantially more efficient hull and drivetrain designs although they may be working on this for all I know.
There are many other builders in the motorboat market from the UK, Italy, USA, France, Taiwan and now, China. Actually both Fairline and Princess are quite small in global terms so it might be worth looking at what other builders have done
 
I don't quite understand the question. Are you asking if there have been enough sales of luxury motor yachts globally to keep the manufacturers of such yachts in business? If so, then arguably no there have not, one of the biggest, Ferretti, required re-financing and the main investor lost their shirt, and others have also had problems.

I think though that you're asking something about whether manufacturers have continued to produce expensive, luxury models, or have tried to find buyers in the recession by making cheaper, less luxurious models? In general, they've stuck to the same luxury products, and offered better discounts. Some of the lower cost manufacturers have made some ground, but I think they would have made that ground anyway, as they were newish to the market and their products were improving.

I don't think there's a big difference in build quality between Princess and Fairline, they compete for broadly the same type of customer. People have their favourites, but there's not a clear winner

I think you should change the title of your project, it's a bit confusing.
 
louisecollin said:
my title is:
Has the luxury boating industry sustained it's luxury brand?
Click to expand...

Hi. F or P boating is unquestionably a luxury "thing" because the cost of a Princess or Fairline style boat is £500k entry level rising to £6m for the Princess 32m. So, even if you buy the very cheapest F or P, it costs 4 x a Bentley or a DB9, say, which is pretty big expenditure on a toy. The term "Luxury brand" seems to refer to individual brands though, and within the world of boats there is a pecking order of brands. Very crudely, Pershing is like Ferrari, Fairline is like BMW, Galeon is like Skoda, Sealine is like Ford, and so on. All very complex stuff and people will have different opinions on these things so please dont take that as gospel

The recession hasn't made luxury things non luxury, imho. It's just made people choose or be forced by circumstances to buy less luxury. Four Seasons hotels are as luxurious as ever but less sold out, and a £3m Fairline is as nice as it ever was but they are not selling quite so fast.

I don't pick up spelling errors etc on here and indeed I make loads myself, but as it's your dissertation we're talking about I hope you don't mind me saying there shouldn't be an apostrophe in your "its". :-)
 
jfm said:
I don't pick up spelling errors etc on here and indeed I make loads myself, but as it's your dissertation we're talking about I hope you don't mind me saying there shouldn't be an apostrophe in your "its". :-)
Click to expand...

Mmm, the spelling mistakes and phrasing is not what I'd expect from a student, made me wonder if this is a bit of a fishing exercise.
 
I too don’t understand the subject of your dissertation. I'm not sure you asked the correct question.

I believe that people on this forum have other reasons for buying their boats. This is a forum of enthusiasts. We tend to select a model or brand on more technical merits –whether the boat has a flybridge, has a full beam mid cabin, engine size/manufacturer perhaps – or our forum favourite – does it have an internal staircase!!

I think it may be of more use to you to ask what people on this forum think in relation to your subject rather than what they bought and why they bought for themselves.

It seems that you already have some views for your subject already.

FWIW – my views contradict some of the comments already made. I believe that over the last few years, Princess have moved more upmarket. That is, they are now concentrating on higher value boats. Five or six years ago, I believe that their best seller was their flybridge P42 – one boat leaving the factory every Friday afternoon. Recently, though they have invested in expanding their boatyard by taking advantage of the reduction in size of the Navy’s Devonport dockyard. And as you see from the London Boat Show, Princess have already increased the size of their largest boat to 34 metres – a bigger 40 metre boat will follow – I believe both models built in the new yard.

Princess seem to be following another British builder that you haven’t mentioned – Sunseeker who, over the last few years, have been steadily increasing their size range. Fairline, on the other hand seem to me to be continuing and improving their current size range. There are other British builders that might be worth considering.

So IMO - sustaining?
No - probably more like diversifying.
 
My subject is open for change and I don't want anyone to tAke what I've said the wrong way. I appreciate your views and the idea is to ask this question that I have stated so that I get the kind of reply that you have given me so that I can prove or dis prove this question.

Thanks

LC
 
hlb said:
I dont understand "dissertation" is it a new word.
Click to expand...
Haha, it didn't sound so weird to myself because it comes from latin.
But I also couldn't get my head round the title, and the sense of a research on such subject.
In my age, Uni professors used to recommend/debate/approve any thesis subjects.
Not sure if that's still the case, but if it is - and if the OP had such topic approved by her professor - I'd suggest to either change the Uni or at least the prof... :D
 
MapisM said:
Haha, it didn't sound so weird to myself because it comes from latin.
But I also couldn't get my head round the title, and the sense of a research on such subject.
In my age, Uni professors used to recommend/debate/approve any thesis subjects.
Not sure if that's still the case, but if it is - and if the OP had such topic approved by her professor - I'd suggest to either change the Uni or at least the prof... :D
Click to expand...

Yep but I've got a Princess, regardless of the none understanding of latin.

In the eighties, "Logistics" was the buz word, everybody wanted to be in it. They bought my products, but were also the local transport companies. Just about every one was in "Logistics".
 
Which course

louisecollin said:
Hi there,

I am currently doing a study on comparing Fairline Boats and Princess yachts, i would like people to share their opinions on both these companies and if you prefer one over the other, or if there is a particular boat that you have great interest in and why?

I would like this to be a debate between memebers. if you have a Fairline or a Princess then please tell me what steered you towards you choice?

Or if you have a boat from a different company then feel free to tell me what you have and why?

Thank you
Click to expand...

and where? Southampton ? or Plymouth.....
 
This is a global situation so you should look globally.

Brunswick own 35 marine brands making boats from very small to over 100 feet. They own Sealine in the UK. http://www.brunswick.com/brands/marine-boats/index.php

For France look at the http://www.beneteau-group.com/en/le-groupe-beneteau/2.html as they also own a number of brands.

There is a lot of information out there from these big groups who being publically owned must give facts and figures.

Despite the bravura statements on these pages the signs are that all including UK manufacturers have had a tough time. Sunseeker, the biggest UK brand, was effectively sold. Fairline, financed by 3i, had to reduce their production drastically. Princess a similar story as was Sealine.

All have been investing for the future so are no doubt keeping their fingers and everything crossed.
 
Hi LouiseCollin, Yes, I agree with a lot of the above. The leisure boat market is very diverse. Take a look in any large marina and you will see a huge variety of styles of boats. You have chosen to compare what are effectively variations on a theme.

Take a look at a large marina in northern France and you'll find a much greater preponderance of peche promenades and sailing yachts. There are different lifestyle priorities.

Take look at a marina in the med, and you'll see a lot of larger sports crusiers.

Pop into Monaco and your 30m Princess will be dwarved by the custom yachts.

Would you ask whether people would buy an HP laptop rather than a Dell as a result of the recession? Don't think it would make for very interesting reading. There is definitely a more fundamental question - how elastic is the demand for luxury boats in the context of rising prices - fuel, moorings. If it's competing with essential spend, then it will suffer. The larger the boat, the more likely the individuals are not being impacted by the recession at least to the extent that it affects their discretionary spend. Many people who buy at the 40/50ft end will never aspire to a 100ft plus boat. You are looking at very different customer segments accross these manufacturers ranges.

So in a recession, are they right to move upmarket?

Do they lose out in the long term if they do not have "entry level" models?

What influences the best long term survival strategy?

And also what drives businesses that produce boats? Is it profit and shareholder value? Or do they just love producing great boats and hope to make enough to continue to invest and not make a loss?

Have fun!
 
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