Princess 54 or...

[jrudge]

On the hi-lo, I also heard it might be a bit more expensive. And I guess it make sense if the boat's not made for it, that the ride could suffer from it. It's tough to set the final priority list. First priority is for sure 3 full cabins plus crew cabin with airco. But for all other options, I need to see them IRL. Planning a trip soon to see several at the same time.

I meant the 10 year old Fairline 55... that doesnt sound too good though... and the 58 is then the 2010+?
Any opinions on the Azimut 62 of about 10 years old? Seemed also a good price/size value, although I sometimes hear not great things on quality?

The s58 started about 2002. In 2004 there was a facelift. In essence semi square portholes and removal of gold fittings from the interior and a hi lo tv in the saloon. Not much then changed until 2009 when the new one came along.

The 65 has a hi lo ( I had one ) and assume the 2009 on s58 did also. Do bear in mind there will be a radical price hike for the new 58 over the old

I am on a 2004 one at this moment putting in a water maker and the boat is in bits. It is very well built !

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

The s58 started about 2002. In 2004 there was a facelift. In essence semi square portholes and removal of gold fittings from the interior and a hi lo tv in the saloon. Not much then changed until 2009 when the new one came along.

Evening J, I thought the 'old' model s58 had two facelights, one in 2004 and the second in 2008. Hilo tv was in the second facelight (along with the removal of the slash detailing on the external c pillar).

Still a fab boat though, whichever version (although I would have thought that gold lightswitches would have suited you perfectly ).

 

[jrudge]

Evening J, I thought the 'old' model s58 had two facelights, one in 2004 and the second in 2008. Hilo tv was in the second facelight (along with the removal of the slash detailing on the external c pillar).

Still a fab boat though, whichever version (although I would have thought that gold lightswitches would have suited you perfectly ).

No gold thanks !

Yes at some point the strakes at the back did indeed vanish !

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Any opinions on the Azimut 62 of about 10 years old? Seemed also a good price/size value, although I sometimes hear not great things on quality?

You are buying used so make a thorough check for osmosis which is the quality issue they sometimes have, especially with some owners who think that since it has hull guarantee for five years they think they can leave it in the water for all that period.
It still does not have hi/lo bathing platform.

 

[MapisM]

The old Squadron 55 has a similar interior layout (utility room included a bit deeper galley) to a 58 Squadron, and later versions had improved flybridges (2003 onwards).
All Fairlines of the era have tight engine room which usually become okayish when you open the saloon floor.
I still think the old 55 looks better outside then a 58. But I guess to each his own.

Well, 'fiuaskme there are two design choices in the 58 which aren't exactly elegant: the fake grill with horizontal lines in the C pillar (which IIRC was there also in the 55), and the central f/b poles for radar etc. instead of the usual rollbar (which is what the 55 had, instead).
But even accepting that you might prefer the somewhat sleeker 55 design, that's nowhere near enough to prefer it over the 58, which was clearly superior in every other respects, imho.
The latter is also significantly larger btw, and it clearly shows in all interiors, and also outside.
Chalk and cheese pops to my mind, if I think about the 55 and the 58 respectively.
The "each to their own" principle always stands, though! :encouragement:

 

[Whitelighter]

I thought the 58 was an evolution of the 55.
Certainly the layouts are very similar:

55


And 58


As previously mentioned, the 55 flybridge design was a bit rubbish until the last MK3 version which had a FB very similar to the 58.

 

[Nick_H]

You are buying used so make a thorough check for osmosis which is the quality issue they sometimes have, especially with some owners who think that since it has hull guarantee for five years they think they can leave it in the water for all that period

Yep, how foolish to think you could leave a boat in the water ..

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

I thought the 58 was an evolution of the 55.
Certainly the layouts are very similar:

55
View attachment 69094

And 58
View attachment 69095

As previously mentioned, the 55 flybridge design was a bit rubbish until the last MK3 version which had a FB very similar to the 58.

It is. Lighter color choices help in making the 58 feel more spacious, although as Mapis it is bigger in all areas not to warrant much of a difference in sq footage.
Bigger difference is the saloon and the midships cabin, I think the forward cabin and forward part of the dinette is fairly similar.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Yep, how foolish to think you could leave a boat in the water ..

Leaving a boat in the water is okay, but you need to dry your grp every now and then.
Giving it a dry on land for a month a year does do not any wrong, you are also checking your stuff, renewing it and making it look new again.
I have seen most makes blister if left three years or more without any proper care.
Then in the end osmosis and or blistering is not a big deal nowadays and anyways in most boats it is very superficial in the first layer of resin or so.

 

[MapisM]

It's been a while but finally an update. We were able to look at a few boats in real life and boy, does that make a difference. Pictures help but it just doesnt show the true space (or lack thereof). So now we've more or less fallen for a Sunseeker Manhattan 60. It's amazingly spacious, the kitchen is huge and although down a few steps still very light. Hi-lo bathing platform, big flybridge and the side door next to the helm is nice as well. Budget-wise it fits the bill nicely leaving room for updates here and there.

So any experiences with the Manhattan 60 here?
The main thing I'm wondering is why there are so many for sale (compared to for example the Princess 67, hardly any for sale). Do I miss something horrible about these boats?

No experience from me, sorry. You'll soon hear from someone who has some, I guess.
Otoh, I'm posting because in my experience the 'Hattan 56 is one of the worst boats in her segment in terms of internal spaces, if not THE worst.
I'm aware that the 60 is a different boat, but generally speaking I'm a bit surprised to hear that you were so impressed by any S/skr, in this respect.
...Makes me curious to hear other views!

 

[Screwie]

Damn I keep on deleting my post... luckily MapisM was quick with answering thanks!! So here the original:

It's been a while but finally an update. We were able to look at a few boats in real life and boy, does that make a difference. Pictures help but it just doesnt show the true space (or lack thereof). So now we've more or less fallen for a Sunseeker Manhattan 60. It's amazingly spacious, the kitchen is huge and although down a few steps still very light. Hi-lo bathing platform, big flybridge and the side door next to the helm is nice as well. Budget-wise it fits the bill nicely leaving room for updates here and there.

So any experiences with the Manhattan 60 here?
The main thing I'm wondering is why there are so many for sale (compared to for example the Princess 67, hardly any for sale). Do I miss something horrible about these boats?

 

[Screwie]

No experience from me, sorry. You'll soon hear from someone who has some, I guess.
Otoh, I'm posting because in my experience the 'Hattan 56 is one of the worst boats in her segment in terms of internal spaces, if not THE worst.
I'm aware that the 60 is a different boat, but generally speaking I'm a bit surprised to hear that you were so impressed by any S/skr, in this respect.
...Makes me curious to hear other views!

Well although it says 60ft on the can, I found out it's actually more like 64 ft and also the beam is 5m, which makes it feel really spacious in my opinion, more beam makes such a difference...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

more beam makes such a difference...

Thats what I keep telling the SWMBO! Actually you are right. A small increase in beam can make a big difference to the amount of interior space so its always worth comparing beam as well as length. As for why there are so many Man 60s for sale, that can only be because Sunseeker sold a load of them new. That means they were popular but it also means that secondhand prices might be a little soft so bargain hard if you want one

 

[MapisM]

Thats what I keep telling the SWMBO!

Blimey M, you should post a warning before writing this stuff.
Something along the lines of "put your coffee mug on the table before reading the following"...!

 

[MapisM]

Well although it says 60ft on the can, I found out it's actually more like 64 ft and also the beam is 5m, which makes it feel really spacious in my opinion, more beam makes such a difference...

Yeah, but that's the thing: actually, 5m ain't so beamy for a 60 footer - let alone a 64 footer.
Just to put this in perspective, my 56' is very close at 4.90m, which is one foot beamier than the 'Hattan 56, and I can assure you that saying "and it shows" would be an understatement.
At a similar LOA of the 'Hattan 60, Deleted User's F630 is a whopping half a meter wider!

Imho, if interior spaces are relevant in your decision, you could do worse than looking at some IT builders.
Just as one example, at the size you are now considering, the Sanlorenzo SL62 is - to put it simply - a boat that you would regret not having looked at.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Imho, if interior spaces are relevant in your decision, you could do worse than looking at some IT builders.
Just as one example, at the size you are now considering, the Sanlorenzo SL62 is - to put it simply - a boat that you would regret not having looked at.

Agree. The SL62 is on a different planet in terms of interior space compared to other 60 footers plus its built like a brick outhouse. The bathing platform on the later models is a bit weird

 

[MapisM]

The bathing platform on the later models is a bit weird

Yup, it's the Mk1 that I had in mind, with my previous suggestion.
Btw, the bizarre stern isn't the only thing they changed for the worse, in the Mk2.
Which is in fact a very different boat (not equally well finished, V-drives rather than straight shafts, etc.), whose commercial success wasn't anywhere near Mk1.
And with a very few that can still be found for sale at 20% of their original prices (if not even a bit less), I honestly can't think of anything better in terms of VFM.
If she weren't a tad too large for our needs, she would have made our choice much simpler... :encouragement:

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Yup, it's the Mk1 that I had in mind, with my previous suggestion.
Btw, the bizarre stern isn't the only thing they changed for the worse, in the Mk2.
Which is in fact a very different boat (not equally well finished, V-drives rather than straight shafts, etc.), whose commercial success wasn't anywhere near Mk1.
And with a very few that can still be found for sale at 20% of their original prices (if not even a bit less), I honestly can't think of anything better in terms of VFM.
If she weren't a tad too large for our needs, she would have made our choice much simpler... :encouragement:

Can't agree with that. I had a good look at a used SL62 Mk2 when I was buying my F630 from SL. Having had a couple of V drive boats, I dont have any issue with them. Its not only about where the engines are located but also the other heavy weights like the fuel, water and black tanks. The SL62 was better finished than the F630 or at least lets say finished in a more traditional manner with a lot more timber. Instead of a double + 2 single bed guest cabins it has 2 x 2 single bed cabins which IMHO is a lot more useful for guests. The crew cabin also has 2 usable single beds, there is a small aft lazarette which the 630 doesnt have and the piece de la resistance is a really useful utility room below the galley. Despite the wierd bathing platform, had the SL62 been for sale at a similar price to the 630 (it was about €200k more) I might well have bought the SL62 instead of the 630. Not that I'm unhappy with the 630 which has proved to be an excellent boat

 

[MapisM]

That's not what I meant, M.
I neither wanted to dismiss V-drives in general (I've got them also on the DP, btw), nor the SL62 Mk2, which also in that latest incarnation was still among the best boats in her class.
But did you see also a Mk1? Her layout was arguably less modern, but imho more efficient and logic.
Not to mention the stunning woodwork - albeit that depended to some degree from the choices of the first owner.
Besides, according to a few folks I spoke with, who cruised with both versions (one of them being a former SL dealer), Mk1 was more balanced and overall better performing.
Allegedly, this has to see with the fact that they kept essentially the same hull, redesigning the whole powertrain ex-post to fit V-drives, in order to gain a bit more space for the full beam master.

Bottom line, I don't think you made a wrong choice, considering also the price difference.
Then again, I can tell you that dismissing a beautiful Mk1 which I could have bought for not much less than €300k was a tough call.
A logical decision in many ways, but also sad, in some others... :nonchalance:

PS: coming to think of it, I'm not sure to understand what you mean by "Instead of a double + 2 single bed guest cabins it has 2 x 2 single bed cabins".
Afaik, the standard layout of the Mk2 was with 3 cabins: center master, VIP at the bow, and 2 beds guest, which is pretty much the same arrangement you've got in the F630, though "distributed" differently.

 

[Portofino]

Ah a bit of Lindsay Lord in the Mk 1 - centre the weight - ie mid the engines .
Obviously there’s commercial pressure of wow factor mid cabins @ boat shows which SL like most gave in .
Rowing with the naval Architect “ it’s either this ( mid cabin / V dr8ves ) or we are all out of a job next year “