Princess 54 or...

[Hurricane]

Actually, the mid cabin for me is a show stopper.
I love ours and wouldn't give it up unless I had to.
And the P67, being a 3 cabin boat rather than a 4 cabin that it should be means the mid cabin is massive.

Yep - after the above comments, the P67 does seem to tick a lot of boxes.
I had forgotten to mention that the P67 also has a letterbox passerelle that you can literally forget about until you need it.
Our berths in Sant Carles are pontoon berths so nobody uses passerelles on our pontoon berths anyway.
So we literally forget that we have one.

For the OP
You seem to be considering Princess and I have suggested the P67.
The bad news about the crane.
On ours, it has turned out to be one of those pieces of equipment that has been a difficult to maintain.
Usually, these cranes are made by Opacmare.
When ours was fitted, the heavy duty DC wire connection hadn't been tightened properly and it took years to find it as in intermittent fault.
I have also changed the wire (actually Dynema rope) several times.
I have got it where I want it now but you do need to understand how to strip it down to keep it in good working order.
That said, I wouldn't be without it now.
When I was buying spares for it a couple of years ago, I bought a spare controller (dirt cheap - I found Opacmare's electronics supplier).
Princess supply the boat with one controller and two places where you can plug it in - one on the FB and one in the cockpit.
With an extra controller plugged in, you can use either which saves time.
When we lift the Novurania onto the bathing platform, it is easier to use the cockpit controller.
Conversely, on the FB, i use the FB controller but with two controllers, I can quickly nip between the two.

 

[Eren]

Post 2009 Princess 62s have a very nice solution. They are equipped with both letterbox passerelles and also a mini crane hidden behind the cockpit. It is small but also capable of lifting a Williams.

 

[Screwie]

Thanks for the replies.

I didnt think about the tender maintenance possibility with a crane. That's definitely a plus. Still not sure about the fixed vs hi-lo bathing platform as an actual bathing platform for kids... but I guess there have to be compromises. Good to know the passerelle crane isn't a deal breaker.

On Princess vs others, I'm definitely open to others, just prefer Princess. We were discussing the Sunseeker Manhattan 60 as an option as well. Not sure about it though. The old 66 even has the aft-galley layout. Neither the option of tender and jetski though... P67 still my favorite. P62 has the small flybridge table again... I really have to see those IRL, I can't believe they wouldnt make a good 6 person dining space on the fb...

 

[jrudge]

And this all goes to show boating is a compromise!

Given no financial constraints I would of course go for mid cabin, Hi-lo etc.

However most of us have a certain amount of money we are either willing or able to stick into a boat.

And there starts the compromise.

Hurricane has a mid cabin as a show stopper. That is absolute fine but on my budget that would have given me a Manhattan 50, and that was too small.

So my compromise was no mid cabin ( or hi lo for that matter) for the significant extra space that a S58 gave me.

All of us on the forum will tell you what we think and highlight the pros and cons and then the compromise you choose is yours!

I spend a lot of time on the boat ( 3 months + per annum) so to me general space is very important. I enjoy having guests so the ability for them to spread themselves out is also important so we are not on top of each other and i need a table big enough to have lunch. So for me a decent sized flybridge is a must. How i get the tender in and out and where I sleep are not really that important .... to me !


A Williams rib is important to me as it provides much of the entertainment whilst on anchor and does not have a prop that can catch the kids. Other want a slow tender, electric tender, outboard and so on.

To some extent it comes down to money - but even then there are compromises!

Finally do remember that the boat manufacturer just makes the plastic bits by and large and all other bits come from pretty similar sources ( volvo, trend, etc). There has been a fair break away now in terms of styling etc but if you look back 5 or so years the boat designs were all remarkably similar, and the further you go back the more similar they are - so I would not get too hung up on Fairline / Princess / Sunseeker etc and just look at the boat for what it is.

Best of luck

 

[Coustea1]

And this all goes to show boating is a compromise!

Given no financial constraints I would of course go for mid cabin, Hi-lo etc.

However most of us have a certain amount of money we are either willing or able to stick into a boat.

And there starts the compromise.

Hurricane has a mid cabin as a show stopper. That is absolute fine but on my budget that would have given me a Manhattan 50, and that was too small.

So my compromise was no mid cabin ( or hi lo for that matter) for the significant extra space that a S58 gave me.

All of us on the forum will tell you what we think and highlight the pros and cons and then the compromise you choose is yours!

I spend a lot of time on the boat ( 3 months + per annum) so to me general space is very important. I enjoy having guests so the ability for them to spread themselves out is also important so we are not on top of each other and i need a table big enough to have lunch. So for me a decent sized flybridge is a must. How i get the tender in and out and where I sleep are not really that important .... to me !


A Williams rib is important to me as it provides much of the entertainment whilst on anchor and does not have a prop that can catch the kids. Other want a slow tender, electric tender, outboard and so on.

To some extent it comes down to money - but even then there are compromises!

Finally do remember that the boat manufacturer just makes the plastic bits by and large and all other bits come from pretty similar sources ( volvo, trend, etc). There has been a fair break away now in terms of styling etc but if you look back 5 or so years the boat designs were all remarkably similar, and the further you go back the more similar they are - so I would not get too hung up on Fairline / Princess / Sunseeker etc and just look at the boat for what it is.

Best of luck

I think this is the soundest and best boat advice I've ever seen.

 

[Hurricane]

And this all goes to show boating is a compromise!

Given no financial constraints I would of course go for mid cabin, Hi-lo etc.

However most of us have a certain amount of money we are either willing or able to stick into a boat.

And there starts the compromise.

Hurricane has a mid cabin as a show stopper. That is absolute fine but on my budget that would have given me a Manhattan 50, and that was too small.

So my compromise was no mid cabin ( or hi lo for that matter) for the significant extra space that a S58 gave me.

All of us on the forum will tell you what we think and highlight the pros and cons and then the compromise you choose is yours!

I spend a lot of time on the boat ( 3 months + per annum) so to me general space is very important. I enjoy having guests so the ability for them to spread themselves out is also important so we are not on top of each other and i need a table big enough to have lunch. So for me a decent sized flybridge is a must. How i get the tender in and out and where I sleep are not really that important .... to me !


A Williams rib is important to me as it provides much of the entertainment whilst on anchor and does not have a prop that can catch the kids. Other want a slow tender, electric tender, outboard and so on.

To some extent it comes down to money - but even then there are compromises!

Finally do remember that the boat manufacturer just makes the plastic bits by and large and all other bits come from pretty similar sources ( volvo, trend, etc). There has been a fair break away now in terms of styling etc but if you look back 5 or so years the boat designs were all remarkably similar, and the further you go back the more similar they are - so I would not get too hung up on Fairline / Princess / Sunseeker etc and just look at the boat for what it is.

Best of luck

You have forgotten the other big point on the Sq58
Somewhere to throw your dirty laundry before you chuck it in the washing machine.

 

[jrudge]

You have forgotten the other big point on the Sq58
Somewhere to throw your dirty laundry before you chuck it in the washing machine.

It makes an astonishing difference to the day to day running of the boat as food, drink, washing, huge volumes of towels all vanish.

It also allows weeks to pass by before you provision and on change over day if all the washing does not get done you have somewhere to keep it!

The galley it has to be said was designed by a man ( and one who does not cook) ... they give you about half a normal kitchen cupboard which we keep the sauces in ! The utility however is bleeding amazing !

It is a space luxury. JFM converted into 2 bunks with a WC which is a great idea, but i have a Washing Machine and another fridge so access to one or other would be blocked and I would loose storage - but his looked pretty amazing ( quelle surprise ...)

 

[Nick_H]

Depending on the design it can be relatively cheap and easy to change the flybridge layout. I changed my P57 and can now seat 6-8 around the table, in fact having lived with it for 10 years I can confidently say that my design is better in every respect than the original

On the hi-lo vs pass crane question, i'd say recovering the tender seems easier with a pass, having watched lots of people trying to get the tender onto it's chocks on a hi-lo platform in a swell. Launching is definitely easier with a hi-lo though, and mapism's point is very valid, it's much nicer to walk along the pass and onto the transom steps, than to clamber down over the cockpit seating. Hi-lo is also nice as platform for swimming, especially with kids or elderly on board.

 

[Hurricane]

Another thing for the OP to consider.
Virtually all the boats that he is considering will have Vac toilets.
It has been said on here that Vac toilets are the work of the devil.
Having just spent nearly 10 years keeping ours working, I agree.
I strongly suggest that if the OP does settle on buying a boat of this generation that he "puts aside" some money to remove any old Vac toilets and replace with either Tecma or Planus.
In doing so, he would remove a huge amount of pipework under the decks and have much more reliable toilets.
The old holding tanks can remain.
Thanks to djefabs (on this forum), we did ours last November.

This was what came out - and more.

 

[Portofino]

To the Op , have you and your wife looked at a used San Lorenzo 62 ? Or Alaluga or Della Pietra of similar size and price to the U.K. influenced Princess range .
I realise you’ve rented one ( the Priny ) in a “ hoseseasons “ kinda way scaled up and seem smitten understandably- it’s just “when in Rome “ etc
Happy to stand corrected but you don,t see many Prinys on the Liguria I wonder why ?
It’s not a long trip 1/2 way down Italy to visit Italian yards ,maybe have a look at there part - ex,s .

This winter we had to be a bit picky - re travel dates via road as you probably know the weather played havoc with the trans alps routes up to now .
Even the roads across Piedmont have had snow on them .
At least with the SoF one can nip out W via Geneva/ Lyon if not flying .
Anyhow it’s a lot easier to move port than change boats .

 

[MapisM]

And this all goes to show boating is a compromise!
Given no financial constraints I would of course go for mid cabin, Hi-lo etc.

FWIW, I fully agree with the first line, but only up to a point with the second.
I mean, in my last boat search I obviously had some budget limits, but eventually we gave ourselves also a rather strict SIZE limit. In the same ballpark cost of what I eventually bought, I found significantly larger (and indeed very nice!) boats: SL62, Alalunga 65, Akhir 22, Tecnomarine T62...
But after an initial screening, we ruled out anything above 60' at the very max.
That wasn't a financial constraint, but just the wish to have something large enough, as opposed to the larger the better.

Actually, if by "given no financial constraints" we include the world of full time crewed big boats, well, maybe yes, in that case - without exaggerating! - I wouldn't mind an SD92, for instance.
But as long as we stay in the league of owner operated boats, we wouldn't want to go larger regardless of budget.
Not saying that a 65' or even larger boat can't be handled by a couple - in fact, we have some examples also here in the asylum, and it's a very understandable choice.
But for us, the marginal utility begins to drop when the boat size reaches the mid 50s.

Did I say that I fully agree with your first line?

 

[Screwie]

Thanks for the tips and advice! True on the Princess in Liguria thing, many Absolutes (I actually like those and seem to trade pretty good value for money on the used market, just not many around), Azimut and some SL. I havent looked at the ones you named though, will have a look.

And on the compromises, it's our first own boat, so we'll probably end up liking and disliking things I haven't even thought of, but that's part of the process and adventure Now I just want to make sure I get most of the basics right, all the advice here definitely helps!

I guess I'm going to get some first possibilities from the brokers this week, exciting

 

[silverdee]

Hi Screwie

my 2p worth

1-a bigger boat is sooo worth it -bigger rib- -utility room (v good to get full size separate washer and tumble dryers)--dishwasher space-- --lots better in a sea-- better displacement cruising speed.

2- buying second hand great idea but budget for zero speed stabs 70k and tecma loo retrofit 5k and a hi lo if you want 15k. zero speeds completley transform life especially in the cote d azure-- i have done sleipner retrofits on 15.85M and 22.6M boats ; they are like different boats , the enjoyment factor doubles. Look for a bargain when people want to sell- have their new boat the old one is costing them £££ to moor and look after. I paid well under 60% of asking price on our 2002 boat and several other boats were avail for a lot less than asking-- makes a months work in a yard bringing it up to spec seem affordable.

3-HI-LO is nice can be bumpy getting dinghy back on in swell (but everything is a compromise and scared myself a few times with dinghys swinging around on crane wires- ideally need 3 folk 2 to steady 1 to crane) Can easily do a retrofit and if needed bigger platform say then I would. I don`t have one (have used other boats with) and for me its not top priority for spending but proper loos and zero speeds are mandatory to avoid wife and kids leaving me.

4- It should be illegal not to have interior stairs. (joke of course but i really like them and had even on 52 foot boat)

5-I wouldn`t ideally want bow master cab-- too much noise at anchor full beam centre is best but i have aft master which is ok (and at 22.6M 4 x 2 person ensuite cabins)

6- even if you buy something totally different to what I think go for it you will love being on the water. Happy boating.

 

[Screwie]

Hi Screwie

my 2p worth

1-a bigger boat is sooo worth it -bigger rib- -utility room (v good to get full size separate washer and tumble dryers)--dishwasher space-- --lots better in a sea-- better displacement cruising speed.

2- buying second hand great idea but budget for zero speed stabs 70k and tecma loo retrofit 5k and a hi lo if you want 15k. zero speeds completley transform life especially in the cote d azure-- i have done sleipner retrofits on 15.85M and 22.6M boats ; they are like different boats , the enjoyment factor doubles. Look for a bargain when people want to sell- have their new boat the old one is costing them £££ to moor and look after. I paid well under 60% of asking price on our 2002 boat and several other boats were avail for a lot less than asking-- makes a months work in a yard bringing it up to spec seem affordable.

3-HI-LO is nice can be bumpy getting dinghy back on in swell (but everything is a compromise and scared myself a few times with dinghys swinging around on crane wires- ideally need 3 folk 2 to steady 1 to crane) Can easily do a retrofit and if needed bigger platform say then I would. I don`t have one (have used other boats with) and for me its not top priority for spending but proper loos and zero speeds are mandatory to avoid wife and kids leaving me.

4- It should be illegal not to have interior stairs. (joke of course but i really like them and had even on 52 foot boat)

5-I wouldn`t ideally want bow master cab-- too much noise at anchor full beam centre is best but i have aft master which is ok (and at 22.6M 4 x 2 person ensuite cabins)

6- even if you buy something totally different to what I think go for it you will love being on the water. Happy boating.

Thanks! Those tips are worth a lot more than 2p to me ;-) very interesting on refit and hi lo cost, so you can retrofit that on pretty much all boats then? That would be very interesting...

There's a P54 with hi-lo for sale which I'm eyeing but if it's "only" 15k to retrofit, that's good to know. I thought it'd be much more expensive, if at all possible.

I'm tempted to go a bit smaller to start with now again, P54 or just figured out that a Fairline Squadron 55 might also be an interesting option. Try and do it on more of a budget to start with and if we love it then go for something bigger in a year or so.

We had stabilizers on our P64 last year but for some reason it felt worse than on the MC5, the sea was much rougher last year though on the P64, so I wonder if it would have been worse without then... unfortunately didnt test it, but from most comments here I assume it would have been quite a nuisance...

 

[jrudge]

Thanks!

I'm tempted to go a bit smaller to start with now again, P54 or just figured out that a Fairline Squadron 55 might also be an interesting option. Try and do it on more of a budget to start with and if we love it then go for something bigger in a year or so.
.

Dont do it!

Selling boats is a PITA and the brokers fees hi.

Most people don't take PX ( boats.co.uk will PX Bananas if you have them but they are the exception) so changing will involve prep to sell - selling - buying ... and a season might have gone.

If unsure charter for a week - but buy what you want, not a stop gap.

Handling a bigger boat is no different at all to a smaller one.

 

[MapisM]

just figured out that a Fairline Squadron 55 might also be an interesting option

Do you mean the model of the 90s, or the one introduced 10 years ago or so?

Anyway, I would recommend neither.
The earlier is probably the only mid 50s footer I came across (and I've seen plenty) where in the engine room you struggle to even go through in between the engines, let alone along their external sides.
"What were they thinking?" springs to mind, when you enter the e/r. And I didn't like her interiors too, in many other respects.
I went to see one because I already knew the glorious Sq58, and I assumed that the Sq55 couldn't be much worse - boys, was I wrong!

Ref the latter model instead, I never saw one in flesh, also because their prices were above my budget when I was looking, but I did see several videos of that boat, and her cruising attitude is unacceptably bad.
Riding a bit bow high is actually a characteristic of many Olesinski hulls, but the new 55 is beyond a joke in this respect.
I don't know what exactly went wrong in the design of her dynamic behaviour, but surely something did.

If you like FL style, the Sq58 is the one and only of their boats to look at, in that size range.
Most of those for sale are arguably a bit overpriced, when compared to some excellent models of other yards in the same segment, but there's a reason for that - as well as there was a reason why afaik it has been their most successful boat ever...

PS: ref. retrofitting a hi/low swim platform, actually it isn't just a matter of cost.
Integrating it in a boat which wasn't designed for it, depending on the stern design, can be anywhere from easy peasy to very tricky, if not almost impossible.
Funnily, it's somewhat easier to integrate it in older boats, which often had flat transoms and smallish platforms.
If you know in advance that you will want it, I'd suggest to include this as one of the criterias for the boat choice.

 

[Boatbore]

I had a Ferretti 57. Loved it. I think that this forum can argue the pros and cons of almost any model to suit preferences !

I have some sympathy for the arguments aro7nd bigger or smaller. Bigger has obvious advantages but so does smaller, or least of which are the running costs. I had crew on my Ferretti because I like the boat to be immaculate and don’t want to seemed my precious t8me onboard cleaning and maintaining. If you are not having crew then do bear in mind how long it takes to properly clean and polish a big boat !!!!

Your cost estimate of £70 k a year is pretty accurate as a ballpark. It won’t be less than £50 and it shouldn’t get over £100k......but there is a lot of difference between Paying med prices for maintenance or findin* a cheaper alternative, and mooring costs vary considerably too, as do winter plans. I spent a bit more than £70 k a year on my Ferretti (including fuel) but the difference was really the cost of the crew.

As to cursing areas, It’s entirely up to you. Everyone liekes to think that wherever they are I sure the best, much as thy think that the boa5 they have is the best, but it’s a personal choice and the good news is you can always try something different the next year.

Good luck whatever you decide.

 

[Boatbore]

Sorry about the typos...... should have checked before I pressed post

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Do you mean the model of the 90s, or the one introduced 10 years ago or so?
Anyway, I would recommend neither.
The earlier is probably the only mid 50s footer I came across (and I've seen plenty) where in the engine room you struggle to even go through in between the engines, let alone along their external sides.
"What were they thinking?" springs to mind, when you enter the e/r. And I didn't like her interiors too, in many other respects.
I went to see one because I already knew the glorious Sq58, and I assumed that the Sq55 couldn't be much worse - boys, was I wrong!
Ref the latter model instead, I never saw one in flesh, also because their prices were above my budget when I was looking, but I did see several videos of that boat, and her cruising attitude is unacceptably bad.
Riding a bit bow high is actually a characteristic of many Olesinski hulls, but the new 55 is beyond a joke in this respect.
I don't know what exactly went wrong in the design of her dynamic behaviour, but surely something did.
If you like FL style, the Sq58 is the one and only of their boats to look at, in that size range.
Most of those for sale are arguably a bit overpriced, when compared to some excellent models of other yards in the same segment, but there's a reason for that - as well as there was a reason why afaik it has been their most successful boat ever...

PS: ref. retrofitting a hi/low swim platform, actually it isn't just a matter of cost.
Integrating it in a boat which wasn't designed for it, depending on the stern design, can be anywhere from easy peasy to very tricky, if not almost impossible.
Funnily, it's somewhat easier to integrate it in older boats, which often had flat transoms and smallish platforms.
If you know in advance that you will want it, I'd suggest to include this as one of the criterias for the boat choice.

The old Squadron 55 has a similar interior layout (utility room included a bit deeper galley) to a 58 Squadron, and later versions had improved flybridges (2003 onwards).
All Fairlines of the era have tight engine room which usually become okayish when you open the saloon floor.
I still think the old 55 looks better outside then a 58. But I guess to each his own.

Agree on the hi/lo bathing platform 200%. With modern sloop stern some do it by adding another platform, weight at the back, dray on low planning speeds so much no nos on the engineering side.
The first boat to have a hi/lo boating platform on spec was a Sea Ray, and then the Sunseeker 56 Predator year 2000 and just after it but based on the same hull the 56 Manhattan 2001. Sunseeker followed this with the 64 Manhattan Mk.II and then 74M Mk.II. After that Azimut did it with the new Azimut 58 in 2007 and then on all the models. Fairline did this first with the 58 Squadron (evolution of the 55 model with larger bathing platform).

 

[Screwie]

On the hi-lo, I also heard it might be a bit more expensive. And I guess it make sense if the boat's not made for it, that the ride could suffer from it. It's tough to set the final priority list. First priority is for sure 3 full cabins plus crew cabin with airco. But for all other options, I need to see them IRL. Planning a trip soon to see several at the same time.

I meant the 10 year old Fairline 55... that doesnt sound too good though... and the 58 is then the 2010+?
Any opinions on the Azimut 62 of about 10 years old? Seemed also a good price/size value, although I sometimes hear not great things on quality?