Princess 54 or...

[Portofino]

I was talking to someone the other day who was raving about san Remo (good cruising grounds, cheap, good food, not dead in the winter, etc). Any comments?

Correct. It’s about 1 hr by boat to the Cap Ferat peninsula where the coast gets interesting regarding safe anchorages .
Or 2 hrs by boat ( ish ) from Varraza where the OP is thinking of starting .
Remember an extra 2 hrs boat or 2 hrs car - I know which I prefer .

A lot of 20 M + guys base boats there for the cheaper shoreside back up ,it being 1 hr away etc .
Of course in a 20m + boat extended stays @ anchor with a big tender,crew etc is more do able - - err in comfort.
So even a day trip to Cap Ferat 4 hrs @ 27 knots - in a prinny 54/57 -et al —- 400 L/ h so 1200 L = could be a £/€ 2 K day out .
Cos you are miles from any where decent to anchor .

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Being a person who owned both Azimut and Princess, let me tell you the pros and cons of both in my opinion:

Princess:
Better hull in terms of seakeeping - depends of model to model, the 54 with bigger engines is a bit better to a 55, but not by much. The old Azimut 50 is better then a Princess 50 who rides to much bow high.
Slightly higher quality in all terms - i think vintage to vintage they are very similar, with Princess having an edge in electrical systems and Azimut being superior in furnishings in earlier models.
Better headroom - possible but again model vs model

Azimut:
Sleeker design both interior and exterior (to my taste) - I think the newer Princess 56 and 60 are really sleek craft.
Usually more social flybridge setup - yes with older models in recent Princess they discovered how to do the C-shaped dinette at the back of the flybridge. I think the flybridge of newer Princess works better.
Can be better in price (must be checked) - I think they are more or less the same. The problem is that they made so much Azimut in between 2000 - 10 that I think you have more Azimut to choose from in the used marked. E.g. 500 made of 55 / 55 Evo in eight years versus 150 of Princess six years from 2006 till 2012.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Slight Fred drift aimed at PYB. You mentioned the smaller engines in the above post making a big difference, what is your take on the Sunseeker 86 with 1622 V10 2000 M94 engines as opposed to the 1950 12V 2000 M94 engines? Much of a difference over all and will it make a difference when coming to sell one ?

In this size it matters less since most yachts are captain driven but if I am not mistaken speed is 28 knots max 22/23 cruise with the 1622hp and 30/31 and 24/25 cruise capable with the 1950hp.
I would always suggest to go on the bigger engine as long as it is not an overkill of performance and ride.
So if I had two million Euros and want a Sunseeker 86 Yacht and the condition of both is similar I would definitely choose the bigger engine variant. Then it always depends the price difference.

 

[Screwie]

In terms of cruising grounds, I've never really had the "nobody can get here except boats" feeling except for the Lerins (lots of boats though, especially on weekends) and the Porquerolles at night after the last ferry left (that was quite nice though). But I think it's something I would definitely like. Probably something for later in my 'boating career'
From Varazze, Portofino is probably about an hour cruise, so I think that's doable for a day out. The CdA is more like 80nm out, so 3-4 hrs, I would do that if we intend to go cruising around the CdA for a week or more.

Interesting suggestions on the P57 and P61. I've never really thought about the convenience of internal stairs but it does make sense. We had some rougher seas this year and going through the cockpit didnt feel really safe with little ones, internal stairs would be good there. But I'm not sure I like the non-full beam mid cabins and the layout of the flybridge. Might have to look at one IRL sometime... The P67 seems like a perfect boat though, ticks all the boxes plus galley topside. Seems to trade around 700-800k versus 550k for a good P54, but I'm not sure the depreciation is much larger in the end... hmmm.... I have to think about that

 

[Eren]

Mid Cabin
I completely disagree with Eren (sorry Eren)
The mid cabin would be a huge consideration if I were buying again.
It is quieter (no "slap and tickle" like in the bow cabin) - and bigger - I wouldn't be without ours.
Actuallu, you can still see out of the windows in the mid cabin from the bed.
I can see Eren's point about hearing the anchor slip if you were to sleep in the froward cabin - thats the benefit - but the disadvantage to that point would be that you it would keep you awake as the chain rubs against the roller...

Let me clarify my words. I didn't want to say that bow master cabin setup is better than full beam setup. Full beam has obvious advantages. I just wanted to say that bow cabin has its own advantages as well. Even though my current boat has a full beam master cabin, which I like a lot, there are nights with tough weather/sea conditions, where I prefer to sleep at the bow cabin (with one eye open ) for the very reasons that I counted. On all other terms, full beam cabin is better (except for hearing the fresh water pump from the engine room next to you, when your guests wake up earlier than you )

 

[vas]

On all other terms, full beam cabin is better (except for hearing the fresh water pump from the engine room next to you, when your guests wake up earlier than you )

I can unfortunately hear the fresh water pump from the bow cabin and it lives on the lazarette!!! (but on a much smaller boat...)
Someone must do something about pressurised water me thinks!

V.

 

[Hurricane]

I can unfortunately hear the fresh water pump from the bow cabin and it lives on the lazarette!!! (but on a much smaller boat...)
Someone must do something about pressurised water me thinks!

V.

Another plus for the P67 - the water pump is in the lazerette and you can only really hear it when the lazerette hatch is open.

 

[Seastoke]

I can unfortunately hear the fresh water pump from the bow cabin and it lives on the lazarette!!! (but on a much smaller boat...)
Someone must do something about pressurised water me thinks!

V.

put a switch next to your bed vas ,turn on when you get up

 

[Hurricane]

Interesting suggestions on the P57 and P61. I've never really thought about the convenience of internal stairs but it does make sense. We had some rougher seas this year and going through the cockpit didnt feel really safe with little ones, internal stairs would be good there. But I'm not sure I like the non-full beam mid cabins and the layout of the flybridge. Might have to look at one IRL sometime... The P67 seems like a perfect boat though, ticks all the boxes plus galley topside. Seems to trade around 700-800k versus 550k for a good P54, but I'm not sure the depreciation is much larger in the end... hmmm.... I have to think about that

Just wait until others comment on the internal stairs.
I just can't believe that boat builders don't fit them these days.
Even boats as big as 80+ feet still don't have them.
It seems to me that the market is for boats that stay in the marina and are not used at sea the way the older models are.

Yep the P67 has always ticked our boxes - even after 10 years.
We were originally going to buy a P61 but the salesman talked us into the bigger P67 - a decision that we don't regret.
I'd like to think that we have had the worst of the depreciation now but it is a boat, remember - they all depreciate!!

A small disadvantage of the P67 is that she is a tad over 20m and some marinas say that is too big for a 20m berth.
I always declare that she is 20m and most of the time it is accepted.
We easily fit on our 20m home berth.
So, let me tempt you with my tick list - all of which the P67 ticks.

3 cabins (plus crew) - some would say that a boat this size should 4 cabins - but ALL the P67s cabins are huge.

Having just 3 cabins means loads of storage etc - washing machine - laundry storage etc easily accessible.
And each cabin has its own dedicated bathroom.

Internal stairs - as said before.

Full beam mid cabin - as said before - the P67's full beam mid cabin is massive

Galley up - giving easy access to flybridge, cockpit and dinette.

Huge lazerette - separate from engine room.

Full height (standing room) in engine room

Twin transom gates with a letterbox passerelle - makes the whole of the aft of the boat less cluttered.

Finally an important tick box for me is the dinghy.
Dinghy can be stored on flybridge with the crane (was fitted to all P67s as standard)
or on the bathing platform - the crane extends over the bathing platform.
This means you can carry two tenders - or a tender and a Jetski.
See here

On the dinghy front, a couple of seasons ago, we upgraded to a proper RIB rather than a dinghy.
Most people thought (me too) that we wouldn't be able to carry it on board but it fits - and doesn't look too out of place.

A large RIB has been a real bonus - imagine those times when you want to go somewhere away from the anchorage.
For example last summer we left the Princess on a buoy in Espalmador (Ibiza) and tendered into Sabina for lunch and shopping etc during quite large swells.
Our Novurania RIB is a very dry boat - you couldn't have done that in a smaller dinghy without getting very wet.

Here is the RIB on the flybridge (with the old small dinghy on the bathing platform to show the differences).
Sorry about the old winter cockpit covers - the summer ones are much cleaner.

And it also fits on the bathing platform

Finally a short video clip of our P67 under way - note another dinghy option - the RIB on the flybridge and an inflatable sailing dinghy on the bathing platform.
I think the message is "lots of space".
Some have said that boats get smaller in the Med when you start comparing them with others out there.



Sorry about all this jabbering on but we really don't regret spending more on the P67 than the original plan of a P61.

Happy hunting

 

[Eren]

Hurricane,

It is so nice to see how you love your boat and how much you are content with her. I am in the same school with you on that. Nowadays it is all about buying bigger, newer, etc. However, best buy goes through the path just as the OP goes through now. When you know your priorities and inquire a lot, you end up with the correct boat, with which you can have several happy years, just like your case.

 

[Screwie]

Wow, you just made me tick boxes I didnt think I could tick, and tick boxes I didnt know I wanted to tick, for a price which makes sense to me... Galley up layout, check, three bathrooms, check, tender+jetski wow I love that but didnt think this price range and age would have that, check!!!, internal stairs (my wife now thinks that's a great idea), check...

Okay that one is definitely on my list as well now. Any things I should look out for when looking for these? I love this forum, so many helpful comments Thanks all!!

 

[Hurricane]

Wow, you just made me tick boxes I didnt think I could tick, and tick boxes I didnt know I wanted to tick, for a price which makes sense to me... Galley up layout, check, three bathrooms, check, tender+jetski wow I love that but didnt think this price range and age would have that, check!!!, internal stairs (my wife now thinks that's a great idea), check...

Okay that one is definitely on my list as well now. Any things I should look out for when looking for these? I love this forum, so many helpful comments Thanks all!!

OK
If you find one, PM me with the details.
I know ours intimately - I know every part of her.
How to get wires through tight spaces - and what kit breaks etc.
The early P67s were fitted with Man engines - although they were offered with engine options, most of them since were fitted with MTU CR2000 M93 V8 - 1200 HP each.
The MTU is taller than its Man equivalent but shorter - they had to alter the stringer design when they introduced the MTU so there isn't much space under them but more space behind so you can get round to the outboard sides where the batteries and A/C systems are located.

 

[Screwie]

Thanks for the tips and offer. I've started the search, let's see what I find...

 

[Screwie]

Just back from Düsseldorf and talked to a Princess broker there and one thing came up, the crane (p67) or passerelle (p54) vs the hi-lo bathing platform.

How easy is it to use the crane or passerelle vs bathing platform in your opinion? And generally do you feel the automatic platform is a 'must' (also for ease of use when bathing). I've only chartered with this feature, so tough to say for me...

 

[Hurricane]

Just back from Düsseldorf and talked to a Princess broker there and one thing came up, the crane (p67) or passerelle (p54) vs the hi-lo bathing platform.

How easy is it to use the crane or passerelle vs bathing platform in your opinion? And generally do you feel the automatic platform is a 'must' (also for ease of use when bathing). I've only chartered with this feature, so tough to say for me...

Yep - a Hi Lo platform would be the easiest.

We have had both cranes and passerelles - The passerelle on our old Sealine - crane on this 67.

The crane is more difficult to maintain than a passerelle but IMO easier to maintain than a Hi Lo platform which will usually mean a lift ashore to fix any issues.
Also, the HiLo platforms are immersed in water so need antifouling or more cleaning.
For me, the fixed bathing platform means that I don't have any barnacle problems.
We are based in an aggressive marine growth marina so I want as little metalwork as possible in the water.
Just a point though.

For use, the HiLo would be much easier to use.

That said, lifting with a crane is a very do-able thing.
All the lifting is carried out over the starboard side (the crane's base is offset to starboard) but it extends over the bathing platform.
see here

The crane is also very useful to repair/maintain tenders
I serviced my 70Hp Yamahar last year on the bathing platform with the tender hanging from the crane (supported with help from fenders etc)
And I've also fixed jet boats (Jet Ribs) with impeller problems (ropes sucked in etc.
In fact, I remember the kids getting the ski tow rope stuck in the jetski water inlet - the crane sorted that as well.

So, on balance, I agree that a HiLo is easier to use but I think a crane is more use.
I don't miss not having a HiLo platform

Of course they fit both to the bigger yachts.

 

[jrudge]

Definitely interested to hear these types of opinions as well, good to hear the pros and cons! I thought that the forward galley seemed larger than for example on the 56 (eg 54 has full standing fridge freezer). So even though I liked the mid galley in the 64 and the aft galley in the mc5 I felt this galley had the pro of size vs the others?

I generally like the full beam master cabins also because of the cabin height, the VIP beds are always so high up that the headroom is too cramped for my liking...

I also had a look at the Azimut 55, main thing I didnt like was the size of the table on the flybridge, seemed to hardly fit 4 people.

Dont get too hung up on the mid cabin .

Are they nice. Absolutely.

Do you spend much time in it. Absolutely not!

I had a Squadron 65 - 2014 - huge mid cabin. Lovely. Got divorced now have a 2004 Squadron 58.

I honestly dont miss it. The ONLY thing i dont like about it is wave slap on anchor - and i anchor a lot - but sleeping wise etc it makes little difference as the awake time i spend there is frankly minimal.

i have always had a soft spot for the Manhattan 50 - but the mid cabin leads to other compromises so on a smaller boat the challenge is which compromise is acceptable. 54 is hardly small but in the context of mid cabins of older design there are always challenges. Some of the new boats ( using IPS I suspect) cram in a simply astonishing amount of cabin space.

You said you wanted a lot of people around the table for lunch - whilst not a princess you can get 8-10 round the fly table on a S58 if that helps your thinking and it has no bunk beds.

I seem to completely unintentionally migrate to Fairline. The princess 57 is pretty similar to the Squadron 58 but the fly table is quite a bit smaller. The flybridge on the 54 looks pretty small on the pictures - and bear in mind in the med the day is spent on the flybridge or cockpit ( shady and shelter for lunch if breezy)


PS - I thought i had got to the top of the post when i replied and have seen others comments which i unintentionally duplicated!

Also the hi lo vs Paserelle.

I loved the hi lo on the S65. I thought the Paserelle lifting the rib would annoy me. To be honest there is not a lot of difference. Would I have hi lo as a preference yes - but it would not to me be a major consideration. Try to recover a Williams in a swell with a hi lo if you really want some fun!

 

[MapisM]

Of course they fit both to the bigger yachts.

Yup, that's the trend nowadays.
But since Screwie questions was "crane or passerelle vs bathing platform", it's also worth stating the obvious, sort of:
the crane is the only single bit of kit that gives the choice of storing the tender either on the f/b or on the swim platform.
It's extremely rare to find cranes on mid 50 footers, like P54 or similar - in fact, I also have the combined passerelle/crane on the DP.
But if given the choice, my preference would have been for a f/b crane, hands down.
Otoh, if the focus is strictly on easiness of tender handling, the hi-lo platform is hard to beat of course.

 

[MapisM]

Dont get too hung up on the mid cabin.

Amen to that.
Worth mentioning also that bow cabins are far cooler than mid cabins in hot days with some breeze, courtesy of the top hatch - and arguably also safer, for the same reason.
A boating mate of mine with an 80 footer, whenever he doesn't have guests onboard, prefers to sleep in the bow cabin, go figure...
Besides, I've yet to see any boat around the mid 50' mark with mid cabin - even modern ones, with IPS or whatever - where both guest cabins have ensuite heads and separate showers.
I'm curious to hear if anyone knows better, though.

 

[MapisM]

I thought the Paserelle lifting the rib would annoy me. To be honest there is not a lot of difference.

Agreed, yet again.
There's just one thing which I really like, when you don't need to use the passerelle as a crane, and that's the more convenient placement of the passerelle itself.
In the last of the above pics posted by Hurricane, the passerelle is fully retracted, on port side of the cockpit, inside the first step.
Now, it's easy to see why such placement (allowed by the fact that his f/b crane can be used also for anything stored on the swim platform) is much better compared to passerelles installed on the upper border of the transom, in order to be used also as cranes.
Compromises, as always...

 

[Eren]

I have used boats with HiLo platform and some other with passerelle with crane function. I didn't have a boat with f/b crane.

HiLo platform is very practical for putting the tender in and out of sea. With passerelle crane, there has been several times that I was lazy to put down the tender and ended up not going to the shore. With HiLo, it is very practical.

Having a crane on the boat is very useful on some occasions, such as lifting the tender for servicing. I have needed that a couple times, it seems like everybody here has needed that as well.

I agree with MapisM that passerelle with crane is a killer of traffic at the cockpit. That is a big minus for passerelle with crane function.

Coming back to OP's question, taking all these pros and cons into consideration, I would prefer a boat with HiLo platform. Of course best setup would be HiLo platform and a f/b crane. This is available at around 60 feet boats. I would not spec them for a new boat as it would be very costy but if found at a second hand boat, that would be a good hit.