Princess 420 1996

mainshiptom

mainshiptom

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Had a good look around a P 420 today at EBY does anyone know this boat?

she has D6 370 fitted in 2011, so starboard engine has its Oil filter etc on the left hand-side so easy to access but Port engine has oil filter again on left hand-side so nightmare to access, can this be sorted by anyway?

anything else i could lookout for?


Also EBY are keen for me to buy the boat without a survey(save you money) but my understanding is that the insurance will need one?

Thoughts appreciated as always...

Tom
 
At that age (or any tbh), i'd be keen to get a survey. Find it surprising that a broker is advising NOT to survey? Sounds a bit bonkers.

Looking at the pics, not sure I like the idea of the timber blocks under the engine mounts. It might be my OCD, but it just doesn't look right (the rear ones look like they're rotting already)
 
I would suspect that there's something they don't want you to know if encouraging you not to have a survey, I would deal with a more professional broker if that's the kind of advise given , there's plenty of good brokers out there and plenty of boats for sale
 
That looks a lot of boat for the money and Mainship can be described as a very "experienced" boater
I bought a boat taken in P/X by EBY few years ago on exactly the same basis. It was not a boat that was likely to have lot of people fighting to buy it and a less than perfect history that would probably make more careful buyers retreat back into to their comfort zone.
The boat was bought as seen and lying after basic sea trial and on the basis of using my own eyes and ears.
Deal was was struck and the boat was bought back a week later under its own steam.
The folks at BoatsUK were very easy to deal with and we both knew exactly what I was buying and that my offering price reflected this.
Boats UK are not in the business of stiffing people.
 
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oldgit said:
That looks a lot of boat for the money and Mainship can be described as a very "experienced" boater
I bought a boat taken in P/X by EBY few years ago on exactly the same basis. It was not a boat that was likely to have lot of people fighting to buy it and a less than perfect history that would probably make more careful buyers retreat back into to their comfort zone.
The boat was bought as seen and lying after basic sea trial and on the basis of using my own eyes and ears.
Deal was was struck and the boat was bought back a week later under its own steam.
The folks at BoatsUK were very easy to deal with and we both knew exactly what I was buying and that my offering price reflected this.
Boats UK are not in the business of stiffing people.
Click to expand...

I also bought a stock boat from BCU a few years ago, and had a very positive experience. But - this P420 is not a stock boat, it is brokerage, so regardless of advice from the broker I'd be hiring a surveyor.
 
Never buy without a full survey including a full engineers survey on engines and installation.
 
I reckon that could be a good buy at the right price. The exterior styling hasn't dated too badly and some interior design (soft furnishings / alternative colours) could make the burr elm (or whatever it is) joinery an asset instead of a of a liability (as it is IMO currently). And it appears to be spacious too.

And those engines alone have some value alone.
 
Whitelighter said:
Everything is a good buy 'at the right price'

I'm not sure the right price is any where near £100k though
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What would you say is a good price bearing in mind that is has not been serviced for a while, so thinks like engines and batteries need to be looked at.
also Windows are slightly leaking and as Per Mike comment it might be a biggish job as well as lots of minor stuff around the boat?

Thanks for all the advise

Tom
 
Are both engines new or just one? Either way I'd want to know exactly why there was an engine change. Also BCU's comment about not having a survey would set all sorts of alarm bells ringing in my head. What do they know that they don't want you to know? Being sensible you've got to have a survey but if you really feel like a punt I'd be thinking I've got to leave plenty of headroom for fixing the inevitable problems and offer something like £60k sold as seen without survey but subject to sea trial
 
mainshiptom said:
both engines are new(2011) bought from Coastal Rides.

Thanks for the advise.
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When you say new, do you mean brand new or new to the boat - I only ask as CR tend to deal in either second hand or reconditioned engines and I don't think they are a VP dealer.

Anyway, as to the question of value, the answer is I dont know but to me north of £100k sounds a lot for a 1996 boat - even with new(ish - still 6 years old) engines. The engines have sat for 2+ years so they should have had fresh oil before being laid up. Used oil can cause damage if left to sit in engines.

A lot of the boats value is the engines, so you need to make sure installation is up to spec, and ascertain how many hours the boat has done with those in situ. The survey thing rings bells for me too, Id almost certainly want a basic hull survey done but more importantly Id want the engine installation and associated electronic components gone over with a fine tooth comb - EVC gremlins that cant be traced will ruin your enjoyment. Just ask early IPS users.

Those engines are probably worth £15-£20k each, so there is £40ks worth of value. I guess the boat originally had TAMD63p motors so likely the gearboxes may be original. The TAMD63p is a desirable engine still and second hand would probably still get £8-£10k a piece, so the D6 'benefit' is £40,000 - £16,000 max.

Or in other words a £24,000 premium over a boat with the original lumps.

With that in mind it becomes easier to value a standard 1996 P420 with the hateful, sorry, period correct birds eye maple interior. I know what I paid for a similar vintage, similar quality 50ft boat 18 months ago and on that basis id put the value of a standard P420 in the condition that one appears to be in at about £65k. And yeas there are people asking way more but these boats were for sale when I was looking and guess what, they still are.

So, £65k for the boat, £24k for the engines means its value is probably £89k ish. That assumes that the engines were installed perfectly and all the electrics stand up to scrutiny. I think Deleted User was a bit harsh but id certainly consider my opening bid would be around £75k and see what happens - thats with a survey. Without a survey I reckon Mike has it right at £60k as you might find yourself forking out the £24k for new lumps or just driving yourself mad with gremlins
 
EBY probably sell more boats at all levels than most outfits in the UK and have a very realistic attitude when it comes to achievable prices,especially for cash.

.
 
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I was interested in this boat just before Xmas. I asked for some recent photos of cockpit, covers etc, when I saw them it didn't look good, covers wrecked, teak worn out, you get the picture!
But it's like all boats for sale, if they've been standing and for sale for a long time there is usually a reason. But all said & done, if it's the right price and it suits you, why not, it wasn't for me
 
If you could get the boat for £75-80k or thereabouts, and you had £20k to spend on redoing the teak, canvas, interior upholstery, FB upholstery, carpets, windscreen, engine mounts, etc ...
then it could be a good move, so long as you can live with the orangey birds eye maple wood. In another 20 years time, that might come back into fashion, you never know.

Those curtains: what were they thinking?
 
Whitelighter said:
When you say new, do you mean brand new or new to the boat - I only ask as CR tend to deal in either second hand or reconditioned engines and I don't think they are a VP dealer.

Anyway, as to the question of value, the answer is I dont know but to me north of £100k sounds a lot for a 1996 boat - even with new(ish - still 6 years old) engines. The engines have sat for 2+ years so they should have had fresh oil before being laid up. Used oil can cause damage if left to sit in engines.

A lot of the boats value is the engines, so you need to make sure installation is up to spec, and ascertain how many hours the boat has done with those in situ. The survey thing rings bells for me too, Id almost certainly want a basic hull survey done but more importantly Id want the engine installation and associated electronic components gone over with a fine tooth comb - EVC gremlins that cant be traced will ruin your enjoyment. Just ask early IPS users.

Those engines are probably worth £15-£20k each, so there is £40ks worth of value. I guess the boat originally had TAMD63p motors so likely the gearboxes may be original. The TAMD63p is a desirable engine still and second hand would probably still get £8-£10k a piece, so the D6 'benefit' is £40,000 - £16,000 max.

Or in other words a £24,000 premium over a boat with the original lumps.

With that in mind it becomes easier to value a standard 1996 P420 with the hateful, sorry, period correct birds eye maple interior. I know what I paid for a similar vintage, similar quality 50ft boat 18 months ago and on that basis id put the value of a standard P420 in the condition that one appears to be in at about £65k. And yeas there are people asking way more but these boats were for sale when I was looking and guess what, they still are.

So, £65k for the boat, £24k for the engines means its value is probably £89k ish. That assumes that the engines were installed perfectly and all the electrics stand up to scrutiny. I think Deleted User was a bit harsh but id certainly consider my opening bid would be around £75k and see what happens - thats with a survey. Without a survey I reckon Mike has it right at £60k as you might find yourself forking out the £24k for new lumps or just driving yourself mad with gremlins
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Way back I was offered the old 63s owner asked me to try them before they were removed but I bought elsewhere in the end as alarm bells rang then. There must be something really wrong with this boat , it's been for sale a long time with no offers made .
 
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